Zachary Walls - The Story of a Zero Waste Cafe (Florin Coffee)

[00:00:00] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:13] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:20] Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and have done something about it.

[00:00:29] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:37] Dominique: And today Adam and I are joined by Zach Walls. 

[00:00:41] Dominique: Zach is the cafe manager of Florin Coffee. Florin Coffee operates as a roaster with wholesale partnerships, online sales, and an in-person cafe. All while diverting more than 90% of their waste from the landfill. This is an important number because 90% is the threshold to be able to say that you're a zero-waste operation.

[00:00:59] Dominique: And today we're talking about sustainability from the vantage point of small independent shops, specifically a cafe in this case, and what it really takes to minimize your carbon footprint while doing good business. Thanks for joining us, Zach.

[00:01:10] Zach: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:11] Dominique: So we're gonna talk about you championing sustainability in the context of Florin, but could you give the listeners a better sense of the business at a high level? What is Florin? How would you talk about it?

[00:01:21] Zach: Yeah. So we are a independent coffee roaster based out of a neighborhood in Columbus, Ohio. I think at least half of our staff actually lives in the neighborhood that we work in, which is great. And it was started by a married couple, Hans and Joelle. They both had previous experience in coffee and decided they wanted to create their own thing. And after kind of fighting against the idea of having a cafe, they just wanted to do wholesale and just roast really good coffee. When they moved into the neighborhood, everyone kept emailing, asking if they were gonna open one up. And I had told them beforehand that if they ever did, I would love to run it. And I think it was in the fall of 2019 was when we're like, "All right, let's give it a go." And we all know what happened in 2020. But thankfully our neighborhood took really great care of us and we never actually had to shut down.

[00:02:11] Dominique: We just shifted our model to online orders and advanced pickup. And it was just me at the time, so it was pretty easy to work five days a week. But in the past four years, four and a half years, the team's grown to, I think we've got seven people now working in the cafe. And really just, trying to do our best. Just trying to find ways to make a bigger impact. I always say like, "I just wanna make the problem less. I wanna be less of the problem." From knowing you, and then that story, like coffee, I think was a passion area for you early.

[00:02:41] Zach: It was, yeah.

[00:02:42] Dominique: Why is that?

[00:02:42] Zach: So I really kind of stumbled into coffee. And like I feel like a lot of people in specialty coffee. It started off with Starbucks. But then a friend of mine, Kenny Sipes, decided to found the Roosevelt Coffee House. So I worked with him for a number of years. Then I had to take a step away from coffee. But just found my way back 'cause I missed interacting with people. I missed just the, um, we always call it the ritual of coffee, of taking a moment to kind of slow down to just take a moment to breathe and enjoy just that, the little luxuries in life.

[00:03:12] Zach: So, finally found my way back and I've been just trying to take care of my staff ever since.

[00:03:17] Zach: 

[00:03:17] Adam: Was there anything special that you learned during your time working there?

[00:03:20] Zach: At the Roosevelt? I think that was where more of my understanding of what specialty coffee is. I mean, nothing against Starbucks as a whole, but it was very just like kind of transactional. Like we're just trying to get as many people through the drive through as possible. And we did make some relationships with some of our regulars. But once we opened up the Roosevelt in 2015, that was just where like I started to meet all of these, like college students and business owners and people who were also like trying to do other social enterprises and just found that coffee in and of itself can be such a great tool to bring people together to create great environments and great community and it was just, I think it was really the people that like kept me going. 

[00:04:07] Zach: And when I stepped out, that was when I realized just how much that was important to me, that it was something that I craved in a job, was having great relationships with people that I saw on a daily basis. Not just coworkers, but the people in the neighborhood who were living there and being able to serve them.

[00:04:24] Adam: Well, it's neat that you've been able to bring that into Linden and with such a beautiful shop too.

[00:04:28] Zach: Thank you.

[00:04:29] Adam: So, I mean, if you're listening like, as a coffee shop, there's just so many plants and it's got a really nice vibe when you walk in the door. Which I think we'll dive into with some of the cool sustainability things that you have going on there.

[00:04:40] Dominique: Yeah, and I think a quick little kind of coffee 101, 

[00:04:42] Dominique: Can you briefly explain what is specialty coffee versus not? And maybe thinking about just like the role of like small coffee shops, independent shops versus some of these giants, 

[00:04:52] Zach: Sure. So there's like a technical grading scale with coffee. And it's goes up to I believe a hundred. But anything over 80 points when you're grading these coffees is considered specialty grade. Everything else is more commodity. So if you think of like the coffee that your parents probably drank growing up, that's a little bit more on the commodity side.

[00:05:12] Zach: The specialty coffee is, I mean even Starbucks, going back to them, they serve specialty coffee 'cause it's above that threshold of 80 points. But I would say this, we call it the third wave of coffee, the specialty coffee is more focused on highlighting the coffee itself, not trying to treat it like a commodity. We're trying to showcase everything that the producers at Origin are doing, the work that the roasters themselves are doing, trying to accent and, just highlight the work that the producers themselves are doing where there's no like added fruit or anything in the land where their beans are actually growing but just the actual coffee cherry themselves. And then it's the barista's job to make sure that all of the steps that came before them isn't screwed up. 

[00:05:57] Zach: So from producing, to handpicking, to traveling across the oceans, to roasters taking the time to craft it, and I've been a part of the like trying to profile a roast to make sure the coffee tastes as good as it possibly can. And then you take what the roaster did and try to make sure that you can brew the best cup of coffee, whether it's drip, espresso, whatever it might be. So that specialty coffee kind of focuses more on making sure that the end product is great.

[00:06:26] Zach: And then there are some people who say like, we're in this kind of fourth wave or like 3.5, where it's taking that, keeping that as like something that we hold dear, but then also making sure that customers are treated well. Making sure that we're creating environments that are, I guess themselves like sustainable with taking care of staff, taking care of the neighborhood that we're in.

[00:06:49] Zach: And I think that there's a lot of coffee shops here in Columbus that are doing whatever they can to make sure that that's a thing.

[00:06:55] Dominique: I think there's a lot of steps there in the coffee journey to be mindful of, as with like most products. But I think specifically with coffee, there's so many like touch points to nature, supply chain, people. The barista touch too. 

[00:07:07] Dominique: How do you think about the sustainability footprint and all of that, and why do you care about it?

[00:07:11] Zach: I feel like that's a really big question.

[00:07:14] Dominique: It's a big question and I've, I just have seen how much you care, and we're gonna get into kind of like what you've done successfully, but I wanna understand first, like what has driven you to take frankly, some harder steps than you had to?

[00:07:25] Zach: So yeah, why I care is because I haven't seen it firsthand the amount of effort that these producers are putting in. But from people that I know that have been there, or stories that I've read, it takes a long time for a mature coffee plant to actually produce fruit.

[00:07:44] Zach: And it takes, I believe it's hundreds of trees just to create a few pounds. So there's a lot more time and effort that goes into what the producers are doing at origin. And especially when I was out of coffee to see people that are treating this product as just something that gets them through the day.

[00:08:06] Zach: It just, it started to really get at me, and there have been times where I'll even see some Instagram person, like when I'm on the explore page or like a relative that is just saying like, "Oh, why would you ever spend $6 on a cup of coffee?" My immediate response that I was like, "You do that on beer, like you don't second guess going to a brewery and spending 6 to $10 for even 10 ounces". And that's something that's so much easier to produce and so much faster. 

[00:08:38] Zach: And it's truly a shame that we even charge as little as we do for coffee sometimes. But I know that going back to that chain, that touch point, like there are so many people who have touched the hands of those coffee beans that we should really try to honor what they're doing.

[00:08:53] Zach: And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm passionate about coffee in general, is because I know that it takes time. It's a craft. 

[00:09:01] Zach: And when it came to the cafe, I think with, at least how I hope most specialty coffee shops would approach this, is that sustainability has to be part of what you're doing. They might not think it as the, like, this is a cornerstone, but just like it's something that we're always talking about and trying to find better ways to go about it. And I think it was after you kind of pointed out when you did a waste audit for us, that there were just a few things that we could tweak to get close to and then eventually succeed in crossing that 90% threshold. Where like if it costs a few more dollars on our end to, if not be a part of the problem, to be part of the solution, then I think it's worth it.

[00:09:42] Zach: I even try to model that with how we take care of our staff. Like we just got it to where you can work a full-time, like, week in only four days. Because I wanted to make sure that I had this like, dream of having three days off a week where you have your errand running day, your cleaning up around the house day, and then a day where you can just be. And that was a goal that I had for a while, and we just didn't know how to get to it. And eventually we had enough staff, we expanded our hours just a little bit and like now that's a reality. 

[00:10:12] Dominique: I love just how you've been describing this of like there's so many people that are part of bringing that cup of coffee to your table, especially a specialty cup where that extra attention has been put into how it's been roasted. That being able to honor that is also a gift for yourself, right? And then taking it even further and being able to say, "Hey, the space that we're having this in is one that's uplifting for "the employees, for the planet, for everything else." Then that whole experience becomes more regenerative as opposed to just a quick shot to get you onto the next thing.

[00:10:42] Dominique: Yeah. My journey with Greenscope began from being a college student. And like for me, I was going into these spaces like coffee shops. I was conscious of my own footprint and I felt like I was so dependent on that business dictating how you, you know, the carbon footprint of that activity you're gonna do there, whether it's eating, drinking, whatever.

[00:11:02] Dominique: And I was wanting them to take more responsibility so that I could be as like ethical as I wanted to be while being a patron of like their small business. So I can speak to just like, that mattered to me. So it's really cool to hear you genuinely care about the people in the system and create that for your customers. And I do wanna get into later kind of what the customer response has been some of the initiatives, which ones you think they've been commenting on, which ones you think they don't even notice that you're doing, but how that's been positive for you. Because I think for cafe owners, people who have small shops or independent shops, to hear how it's benefited you and your customer relationship would be great. But before getting into that, I feel like we should talk about what the initiatives are. 

[00:11:42] Zach: Yeah. 

[00:11:42] Zach: So the easiest and like the first thing that we ended up doing was just composting our coffee grounds. That was a huge element of the waste that we were producing. That and any sort of leftover pastries, uh, at the end of the day.

[00:11:56] Adam: So quick question, how did you know what kind of waste you were generating? Like how did you measure that? How did you figure out this is the problem that we need to solve?

[00:12:04] Zach: Yeah. So we actually had some help. Uh, Dominique.

[00:12:07] Dominique: I did not plan him to say that. ,

[00:12:09] Zach: But yeah, 

[00:12:10] Dominique: you came in and you're just kinda like, "Hey, would this be something you're interested in?" And I'm like, " Sure, why not? I gotta run it by the owners real quick, but if you wanna play with our trash, sure."

[00:12:19] Dominique: Yeah. It was a weird, it was definitely a weird ask 

[00:12:21] Zach: Right?

[00:12:22] Zach: And I always feel like the greatest relationships and friendships start with some sort of awkward interaction. So thank you for that. 

[00:12:28] Zach: I think one of the more recent ones that we've done is we started partnering with a company called Food Rescue where they actually come in and they pick up our leftover pastries and then they divert them to people who are in need of extra food. And that's just a fun and easy and it makes me feel, and our whole staff feel better about when, like, "Alright, we just kind of spent money on something that didn't make us money. But at least someone's gonna like, have the benefit of it."

[00:12:52] Dominique: So both those services, compost, Food Rescue, they are partners that are coming to your shop collecting that from you and taking it away? Or do you take it somewhere?

[00:13:00] Zach: No, they come and collect it for us. And that was kind of the other thing it's like, this is easy, this is like the easiest thing for us to do. Like sure it costs us a little bit of money from the compost side of things, but like we just have to collect it. Like we don't have to transport it anywhere. 

[00:13:14] Zach: One of the other things that we're doing is trying to find products that are compostable in not just commercial composting facilities, which has been, I mean, we've talked about this before, that it's, there's always just that little asterisk on any sort of eco-friendly product that says compostable, small print in a commercial facility only. But we've found this company called SOFi that is based outta California, that they're making both hot and cold cups and we're mostly just using their cold cups for now but they are at home compostable. They've returned to the earth in 60 to 90 days and they look a little weird and they kind of look like, some people have called them like Chinese food takeout.

[00:13:57] Dominique: That's what I was about to say. I find they look like that. And then it's SOFi. Right?

[00:14:01] Zach: I like to market it as the adult juice box. I think it's a little bit more fun. But we actually just had a coffee convention a few months ago, in Chicago, and there was this new company that was making these, it was launching this idea of a 3D printed cup that was made out of like, just basically dirt and water.

[00:14:21] Zach: And it's not the greatest audio, but you guys can see that it is, basically looks like a terracotta pot. It's got a food safe glaze on the inside. It's 3D printed and this is a 12 ounce, and we actually just ordered our first set. They'll hopefully be here in the next month or so, depending on when you're listening to this. But yeah, it's just another way that we are gonna try to offer something that's a little bit more sustainable. 

[00:14:46] Zach: Our cups right now are recyclable. But this is just a way that it can be even reused more. So this'll be offered as like an upgrade, a checkout kind of thing. If you wanted to have your drink, your latte, your drip coffee, whatever, in this. And then whenever you come back, you can bring it with you and we'll give you the same personal cup discount that we do if you spent $25 or more on an insulated cup.

[00:15:10] Adam: I love it. And if you're listening, Zach's holding up this cup. It looks like a flower pot in the shape of a cup, and it's got a nice little ridge on the inside where you can see that it's been 3D printed, but it's actually kind of mesmerizing. It has a little spiral and then it has a nice glaze, so it's shiny on the inside, but then it has that flower pot look on the outside. 

[00:15:29] Adam: And it just has a nice feel like when I look at this, I wanna have a cup of like Indian chai, like that masala chai. Like for me, that used to always come in these like terracotta cups and I just love the feel of it. So if you're curious, you have to go check these out. It's a good reason to go and visit Florin Coffee.

[00:15:46] Dominique: And I think that was interesting of a call out you're kind of going like a loyalty, like customer returns model a little bit with that too, which just feels like a cool thing for the community and a positive business model when we're trying to connect sustainability with just like doing business. 

[00:15:59] Dominique: But you have another model in your sustainable initiatives, um, with your coffee bags. Will you tell us about that?

[00:16:04] Zach: So the coffee bags that we currently have don't have a foil lining on the inside, like most coffee bags do. And that lining unfortunately prevents them from being recycled. And these bags, they still have the same air release valve for getting all of the CO2 out. But it can be easily returned to either us and we'll take care of 'em, or I actually found out that the Kroger bag return gets sent to the same exact place. So if you've come in, you buy a bag of coffee, you're done with it, and you gotta go get some groceries, take it with you and just drop it off and just know that it's getting taken care of.

[00:16:40] Dominique: We actually are potentially switching up the bagging situation again to, I believe you probably saw this past Christmas, we had our coffee tins. 

[00:16:51] Zach: So, fully aluminum, you can just throw 'em in the recycling at home. 

[00:16:54] Adam: I missed that. So what are the coffee tins?

[00:16:56] Zach: Yes, this past winter we tried out an idea of putting our Christmas coffee in a 60 ounce container with a twist off lid, and it was just a little bit easier for people at home. They don't have to necessarily come back. I mean, we would love them to, but if they just happen to be in town and they are going back home after visiting family, they can then just drop it in their recycling bin.

[00:17:17] Zach: We kind of liked that idea. It was a little bit different. We hadn't seen anybody else that was doing this type of coffee tin, at least not here in Columbus. And we had a few extras, so we're gonna try it again with our summer coffee that's coming out soon. And if people latch onto it, we're gonna probably transition all of our coffee beans into that. And it's a little bit cheaper on our end and it's easier for customers to take care of it and hopefully recycle when they are done with it, if whether it's actually in the recycling bin or reusing it for whatever they might need. Kind of same thing with these terracotta pots. Like when I talked to this company's called Gaia Star, they're like, you can use it for like an actual planter.

[00:17:58] Zach: You can do it for whatever you might need. Little change up. Threw a curve ball at you there with the bags, but it's just another way that we can try to take care of stuff.

[00:18:06] Dominique: Yeah. And right now, aluminum can I know of like soda when you put it in your recycling bin, at least in the Ohio area, but I think it's pretty true for most places that have a local recycling facility. It's when you put it in your bin, it is back on the shelf as a new can in 60 days or less. It's really great from the standpoint of how easily recyclable aluminum is.

[00:18:25] Dominique: Obviously no waste is better than a waste stream, but it's a very positive material to see it really go back into the cycle, which is cool. I learned that at the landfill tour.

[00:18:35] Zach: I just learned that right now. 

[00:18:36] Adam: One thing I've heard you mention a few times is like, "Hey, we were looking at these products and it ticked our boxes." Do you have a list or guidelines of like what you're actually trying to achieve?

[00:18:45] Zach: I'm always looking to make sure that there's that little asterisk isn't there? Or if it is, I'll reach out to that company and see if there's any other way that we can divert this rather than landfill. And that's actually what I did with our hot cups. When I found out that they weren't compostable, I was like, "Can they at least be recycled?" And they're like, "Yeah, just make sure it's rinsed out." 

[00:19:05] Zach: when it comes to any other thing like for our food, for our to-go food containers, just trying to find items that specify that it can like go back to dirt in so many days or that it's compostable without that little asterisk, or that it can at least be like, tossed into something. 

[00:19:23] Adam: So if you're listening and you have a product based business, it sounds like those are some of the things that you can look for when looking for materials that are gonna be diverted from the waste stream.

[00:19:31] Zach: And I'm curious, how has the customer response been with those products and with the initiatives? So sometimes it's been mixed. Some people, um, have been like really excited about stuff that we're doing. Mostly when it comes to the cups specifically. Food containers, I don't think most people think about unfortunately. They probably just get done eating their pastry and then toss it, which is a bummer, but I can only do so much. 

[00:19:55] Dominique: And you do have reusables in the cafe, which we maybe didn't mention, just to mention that too. 

[00:20:00] Zach: Yeah. And we've got like actual metal forks and knives and all the ceramic for, or glassware for our drinks. I think the most interesting response has been with the SOFi Cups just 'cause everyone's like, "What is this?"

[00:20:11] Dominique: Which, Adam, if you've not pictured them fully, but like the lid is part of the wall, so like it folds.

[00:20:17] Zach: Mm-Hmm.

[00:20:17] Dominique: There's no lid separation from the cup, which in the world of sustainability and waste management and education is huge because you'll hear the lid does X, Y, and Z or the cup goes here. So you've eliminated the conversation altogether by the cup and lid being attached. attached.

[00:20:31] Zach: Yeah. And honestly like as someone who orders stuff for our cafe, that's just one less like SKU that you have to order and then stock and keep track of. So all of that combined was a perfect product for us. 

[00:20:43] Zach: Some customers didn't realize that it required a straw. And so that took a little bit of like retraining 'cause we did have a cup that was a, like a sipper lid for a while. 

[00:20:53] Zach: A few other people didn't realize how compostable it was. There was a funny story of a husband coming in and getting a cold brew for his wife, and then she put it in the fridge and waited overnight and it just completely like started to, to deteriorate. Not utterly, but it was starting to leak for sure. And at that point I'm like, there's only so much that cup can do. It's not designed for 18 plus hours in a cold fridge. For a couple hours on your desk, it's perfect.

[00:21:20] Dominique: That's kind of great product validation of them being honest about their compostability.

[00:21:23] Zach: Right?

[00:21:25] Adam: It's interesting too, of like testing the boundaries of how far can you actually push this? Especially in terms of drinks where, yeah, if they're composting and falling apart, you want that. Right? But at the same time, you don't want that. 

[00:21:36] Zach: Yeah. You want it to be good at its job, but not too good.

[00:21:39] Adam: outside of that, everyone seems to be like pretty receptive, or completely oblivious. 

[00:21:44] Dominique: That's even better. 

[00:21:45] Zach: Yeah. I find like if you're like taking care of it and if we're doing our part, it should make it easier for the customer. When I'm like trying to find a new product, or, if someone approaches me with a product, I want to make sure that it's simple, it's easy to use and that the customer can understand how to dispose of it properly, if at all possible. 

[00:22:05] Dominique: I think my last thought before getting into how the people can support you is, 

[00:22:09] Dominique: what do you think isa critical first step or two steps for someone else starting out in embarking on a path of connecting the footprint of their business to their values?

[00:22:18] Zach: Yeah. I'd say a great first step is just be curious. Kind of just take a look at like, if you are like, in my situation as someone who's running a cafe, kind of just be curious as to what you could do, what are ways that you can, if you can add a recycling bin or even just find one product like your to-go cup or your pastry container that can hit that like compostable without the asterisk. 

[00:22:48] Zach: You can Google all sorts of like eco-friendly to-go products, or dine-in products. And it is a ocean of products out there that are wide ranging of good and bad. Just be curious.  And if you're here in Columbus, reach out to Dominique and she'll, uh, dig through your trash.

[00:23:06] Dominique: Also true, also local people might dig in through your trash around you. Find out, look for your local sustainability consultant. No, that's awesome. I think that speaks a lot to the idea of like, perfection is enemy of the good You have to start somewhere. 

[00:23:20] Adam: I think one thing that I heard today is you didn't start and say, "Okay, in the next 30 days, we are gonna switch everything in our company. We're gonna introduce these new products and change our process altogether." 

[00:23:29] Adam: It sounded like, you started with composting and then you moved on to the next thing. The next thing. And even today, you're iterating on the different products that you have in the shop as they come along. Like you're discovering new things and you're introducing them and getting feedback and saying, "Hey, let's try this."

[00:23:43] Zach: Yeah, taking it like one step at a time. In our case, one item at a time, and if like one of my staff members find something or like gets a Instagram ad for something that we could use, I'll look into it. That's something I think is great about being a small business is that you can be a lot more flexible, and a lot more nimble when it comes to trying stuff out. And if it works, it works. And if it's not, then scrap it and look for the next idea or go back to what you were doing before.

[00:24:12] Adam: So how can we support Florin Coffee and what you're doing?

[00:24:15] Zach: I think the easiest way, whether you're if you're not in Columbus, is to go to our website, florincoffee.com. F-L-O-R-I-N. Florin Coffee. And just buy a bag. If you're here in Columbus, we'd love to serve you coffee at the neighborhood coffee shop. And, yeah. Come see our weird cups and 

[00:24:33] Dominique: And good vibes. 

[00:24:34] Zach: And I mean, I like to think we have good vibes. 

[00:24:36] Dominique: You definitely do. Well, I wanna just commend you for how much you've done. I brag about all the time, I think you've really showcased how you can have like a happy, healthy business and incorporate sustainability.

[00:24:46] Dominique: And I think I've just watched you incorporate innovation in different ways in a way that I think is really exciting and hopeful because I think it's easy to be scared of change when you have customers to think of and employees to think of. It changes not nothing, for a business. 

[00:24:59] Dominique: And I think you've done a really good job of like folding an innovation and having fun with it and showing other organizations what that can look like and how it can be really positive.

[00:25:08] Dominique: So thanks for what you've done from the community perspective, but I think as a use case, and thanks for sharing what you've done so far. It's really awesome.

[00:25:15] Zach: Thanks. I don't really think about it all that often, but yeah, I guess we have done like a lot of stuff. 

[00:25:20] Dominique: You have. And I think other businesses aren't doing it and it's because it's hard. Like I think even from you sharing all of this, I mean, the amount of time it's taken us to unpack some of these steps, like they're really thoughtful and you've had to be really educated on certain stuff to make these decisions, and that's not nothing. And I think, I also appreciate you sharing that with listeners, that this could be a spark for them to be like, "Huh. Maybe it's within reach." And the more businesses that do this, those products become more commonplace and more familiar to all of us and that's what we need.

[00:25:48] Dominique: Well thanks for coming on. 

[00:25:49] Zach: Thanks for having me.

[00:25:50] Adam: As always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We are here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:26:01] Dominique: You can find our episodes at thegreenchampions.com. If you wanna stay in the loop, give us a review, follow us on your favorite podcast platform. If you have questions about climate change or sustainability, you can reach us on our website at thegreenchampions.com. Our music is by Zayn Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We'll be digging into another sustainability success story in our next episode. 

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