Shelly Douglas - Conquer Imposter Syndrome One Tree at a Time

[00:00:00] Dominique Hadad: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:13] Adam Morris: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:22] Dominique Hadad: And I am so glad to be here at alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and did something about it.

[00:00:32] Adam Morris: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for Green Champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:39] Dominique Hadad: So whether you're tuning in during your daily commute, maybe relaxing at home with a nice book, or taking a nature walk, today you're gonna hear from Shelly Douglas. Shelly is the Executive Director at Green Columbus. Green Columbus is a nonprofit located in Columbus, Ohio. And they're working to increase tree coverage, provide resources for anybody to get their hands dirty and improve the environment of their community. And they host a pretty rad Earth Day celebration.

[00:01:05] Dominique Hadad: Shelly, we're so excited that you're here as one of our very first guests. And we hope listeners get to learn from your journey, to your role and also from your experiences and your success, creating real change through Green Columbus.

[00:01:16] Adam Morris: Shelly, welcome on the podcast.

[00:01:18] Shelly Douglas: Hello, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:21] Adam Morris: Yeah, good. Can we dive in? Can you just tell us a high level overview of what you do now?

[00:01:27] Shelly Douglas: Yeah, so I am the executive director of Green Columbus. So, I kind of handle it all. So we do all kinds of volunteer events throughout the community, but we're a nonprofit. So it's a lot of fundraising and community outreach, and collaborating with a lot of great community leaders. But I have the pleasure of kind of being the face of Green Columbus as our only full-time staff person. So yeah, that's what I'm up to now.

[00:01:59] Adam Morris: Oh, very exciting. I love that. Can we jump into a time machine and go back to the beginning of like how you actually got interested in sustainability? Like, when did this become a thing?

[00:02:08] Shelly Douglas: Yeah, so I feel like this might be a common story for a lot of people, but definitely animals and a love for kind of wildlife and animals is where it started for me. My mom had a VHS movie player in her van growing up, and I always kind of blame her for me ending up where I am because the 3 movies she had in there were FernGully, which if you're not familiar, the monster is like an oil slick or something like that that destroys the forest. Free Willy, which is about an orca in captivity and being freed. And then Flipper, which is about a dolphin. And so we basically just rotated these 3 movies and I just noticed how sad they made me feel every time.

[00:02:56] Shelly Douglas: And so that was kind of my, where I latched on to animals and them mattering and then being important to our earth. And pretty soon after that at the dinner table, I told my mom that I was not going to eat anything with a face ever again. That was my, I was probably like 9 or 10 years old. So my mom's upset because she's like, "Great, what am I gonna make this kid to eat?" But I was putting my foot down, you know. It has a face, it matters. I'm not eating it. And so that was kind of my first, I feel like, activist moment. I have been vegetarian for, you know, probably 15 years now.

[00:03:35] Shelly Douglas: So that was kind of my first, step into the space. But as I grew up I realized that animals are important to the planet as we are important to the planet and we all kind of have effects. But the things we were doing were affecting things I really loved, like animals. And, you know, we watched a lot of Jack, Hanna and Steve Irwin growing up, and that's, I started to kind of picture myself in that realm. And then when I was a little bit older, I got to go on a marine biology trip in high school. And so this was the first time that I was kind of like, "Okay, this can, this could work out for me." You know there's actually careers out there that you can work with animals or you can be outside. And we basically spent a week in The Bahamas snorkeling and identifying fish and things like that with my classmates. And I was like, "Marine biologist, yes." 

[00:04:32] Dominique Hadad: It helps you're in The Bahamas.

[00:04:34] Shelly Douglas: Yes, yes. And we went on like 3 snorkels a day and like, I'm like, "This could be, I could do this for the rest of my life." But I lived in Ohio. So marine biology is not a very common field in the state of Ohio, unless you're at Lake Erie, I guess. Maybe? But,

[00:04:53] Adam Morris: Not a huge land water.

[00:04:55] Shelly Douglas: Right. We don't really have any oceans around us here, but I kind of took interest in what we learned about, you know, algal blooms and coral bleaching. And that really is what launched me into interest about climate change and sustainability and how people affect the environment. And not just the science that's happening there, but how we are impacting it and how it's changing. So I feel like I just had a really kind of strong attachment to all things sustainability without labeling it as that at first. And so then when I got to college, to Ohio State, and I saw this entire school for environmental majors. I was like, okay, "This is real life, career time. I can tell mom and dad that there are jobs out there for this. So yeah, that's kind of how I came to it.

[00:05:46] Dominique Hadad: Did you stick to not eating things with a face? Are you still vegetarian or vegan or?

[00:05:51] Shelly Douglas: Yeah, I'm still vegetarian. I, maybe one day we will be vegan, but I feel like it's, it was too hard for me. So I feel like if people feel that way, they shouldn't feel guilt about, being super strict about it. And it was at a point where, you know, it was hard on my life to make these decisions to be vegan. So for me, being vegetarian is really easy. It's just like that's how I've been since I was 10 years old so it's not really affecting me. But I always tell people any, any reduction they can do is good. You don't have to feel guilty if you're, you're not like me. You haven't been vegetarian for 15 years straight. 

[00:06:27] Dominique Hadad: Yeah, that is very admirable to have stuck with it that long. I feel like I've said a lot of things when I was 9 or 10 that I don't do still. So, kudos. I'm also curious, okay, you called yourself like an activist at some point, or at least that was like a word that as a young person you liked. I'm curious, like, outside of your like formal professional title, what is like some titles you identify with in the environmental space? Is it activist? Is it problem solver? Is it, you know, vague things maybe? But now that you've gone through that degree process and what are some words that you feel like are a good identifier for like, how you feel about yourself now and things you do? 

[00:07:07] Shelly Douglas: I feel like, 'connector' comes to mind 'cause I feel like that's kind of my wheelhouse is connecting people outside of this realm to it in a way that makes sense. But I don't think I was always that way. Like I think activist came to mind because when I did get really into this, I was very, like I said, I tried to go vegan all the way and I, there was one point where I was like trying not to buy any plastic when I was grocery shopping and I went like very hard all into it. And that's really unaccessible for a lot of people and like, not understandable. Like, none of my friends or family could really, like, they're like, "Mate, you're just driving yourself crazy." 

[00:07:48] Shelly Douglas: So now I feel like I'm not so hard activist that there's only, you know, one way to do it that I've taken the time to talk to those around me and like, "Well, why don't you think you could be vegetarian?" or like, "Why don't you recycle?" And kind of listening to their reasons. And then I feel like maybe it's just 'cause I like to argue or because I'm like, I like to prove my point, but I feel like I can usually kind of find some connection to make them understand a little bit. Even if they don't walk away recycling or they don't walk away vegetarian, maybe they understand why I do it and I understand why they don't do it. And so I feel like that's something that I'm pretty good at in this space and then I feel like I'm just pretty relatable. I mean, I am turning 25 this month.

[00:08:33] Dominique Hadad: Happy Almost Birthday. 

[00:08:34] Shelly Douglas: Yeah. Thank you. And so, I feel like some younger students can kind of relate to me in terms of breaking out into the world and some people can relate to me because I am, you know, kind of nervous and kind of just like fumbling over my words and smiley all the time. So, for me it was always kind of scary to sit with an executive director, like even talk to my professors or something. And so I take pride in feeling like I can be relatable and I can kind of come down to, down to earth when I talk to people and not act like I am above everyone 'cause I don't feel that way. I feel like I still have a lot of work to do and I'm still trying to impress people and make relationships. So, yeah.

[00:09:18] Adam Morris: I love that. Well, let's dive into this 'cause you went from like zero to executive director, like really fast and can you just share the story of like what happened when you graduated and showed up at your first job?

[00:09:30] Shelly Douglas: Yeah, so after I graduated from Ohio State, environmental policy was my major. I had a very hard time finding a job. I, was pretty shy in college and I didn't make a lot of relationships with professors. I didn't really have any strong internships, and so I was really, really nervous about kind of my first career. And I ended up doing the summer fellowship program with the Columbus Foundation, which matched me with Friends of the Lower Olentangy Watershed, which is an amazing nonprofit. And so I still was kind of like in an intern capacity. And I knew that my fellowship was ending. And so I saw this part-time, temporary position available at Green Columbus for the Earth Day event that we do. So it was just January through May, part-time and I was like, you know, "I can get a job at a coffee shop or something while I do it, and I'll just meet some people and get into the world." And so two weeks into my job, my part-time, temporary job at Green Columbus, our former executive director got a new job and I was all of a sudden the only employee of Green Columbus.

[00:10:42] Shelly Douglas: So I went from part-time to full-time and the only employee. So, it was a really hard transition and I will say that, you know, our former executive director stuck around and kind of helped me learn the ropes. But Earth Day is our biggest event of the year so I was kind of thrown in right at the most important time of the year. And it was a big learning curve of, you know, I was used to having like deadlines and a rubric and instructions, and all of a sudden it's like, here's the things that need to happen, but besides that, it's up to you to make it happen, it's up to you to put your own spin on it. That kind of responsibility was really new and that kind of freedom was really new. But, I think that being thrown into it was kind of the best way to learn because I just instantly got a spot in the room, places where I wouldn't normally because I was kind of taking over for someone else. You know, I'm all of a sudden in the room with city officials and really big businesses and other kind of government employees, and I just was like, "How did this happen?" Like, part-time, temporary, and like, now I'm here. But so, after we got through Earth Day and it was successful, they did an executive director search and I got it. So I'm very happy to still be here and I feel, you know, really proud that I struggled kind of through it the first time and came out good on the other side and they thought I did you know, a good enough job to stick around, so.

[00:12:12] Dominique Hadad: I was gonna say you had the world's hardest and longest interview, 

[00:12:17] Shelly Douglas: Several months.

[00:12:18] Dominique Hadad: Yeah. But you did amazing, obviously. I kind of wanna just gush about Shelly for a sec 'cause I feel like you're not fully selling yourself and I just think that, like, we wanted to have you on as one of our first guests because we just think you're fantastic. So if you have not seen Shelly in action, she can handle news reporters, she can plant over a thousand trees in a year, manage a lot of it on her own, if not with some side help, but truly a lot of it's on your shoulders. And I think you do a lot of it with poise. And then you also navigate just so many relationships at once and seem to come the next day after I know it's been like a long night. I'll see you the next day and you're just like spry and excited. 

[00:13:01] Dominique Hadad: And, I feel like I'm also someone who has like a lot of energy, but I'm like, "Shelly, where do you find it?" So I'm curious, I don't know, even just like how does it feel like, you mentioned the journey to some of this being like a bit scary or shaky, was there a point with like seeing real success happen? I mean, you're here because you've done so many amazing things. Has there been a point where you're like, "Wow, I'm kind of good at this?" Or like, what can you share about just like the raw feelings of it all?

[00:13:29] Shelly Douglas: Yeah. Well thank you for those nice things but I think that like the entire first year of being at Green Columbus, honestly was, I didn't really feel kind of settled at all, just because everything I was doing, I was doing for the first time. And so I started there January 2022. So, I'm about two years now there. And so I feel like Earth Day 2023 was kind of my moment when I was like, "Okay, not only did I get through it last year, I did it again this year and I did it better." So we do distribute trees for Earth Day and in 2023 we did 72,000 tree seedlings, and that was the most Green Columbus has ever done.

[00:14:14] Adam Morris: 72,000?

[00:14:16] Shelly Douglas: 72,000, all across Central Ohio, and that's just in April. And so we have community partners who host events and plant them. We had 4,000 volunteers in April.

[00:14:27] Adam Morris: 4,000 volunteers?

[00:14:30] Dominique Hadad: In one month.

[00:14:31] Adam Morris: In one month.

[00:14:32] Shelly Douglas: In one month. So that, and that was the most tree seedlings we'd ever done in April. Green Columbus was founded in 2007. And so that was kind of my moment that not only did it still go on, it was the best it had ever been. And so that was kind of my a-ha moment where I'm like kind of breaking out of the imposter syndrome fog and being like, "Okay, I am doing this." It's not like I'm just surviving and I'm thriving and I'm breaking goals. And so that was kind of moment.

[00:15:02] Adam Morris: 4,000 volunteers. How many actual events like do you have for those 4,000 people?

[00:15:07] Shelly Douglas: Yeah. So Earth Day Columbus goes from the beginning of April to the end of April and we had 160 events in 2023. So they're all across, you know, up into Delaware, you know, down into Obetz and all around. So we have 4,000 volunteers this year, it added up to about 20,000 hours of community service just in April.

[00:15:32] Adam Morris: Holy Mo. I mean, I'm just trying to imagine my head. That is a large number of events, a large number of volunteers, and I didn't know, 72,000 trees? Like, that is ridiculous. That is so cool. wow.

[00:15:45] Shelly Douglas: Yeah.

[00:15:46] Adam Morris: I am just taking a pause and letting that sink in. Like if you're listening to this,

[00:15:49] Dominique Hadad: I told you she was cool.

[00:15:50] Adam Morris: This is like amazing stuff. And to be able to make that kind of impact on such a broad scale over the state of Ohio is fantastic. 

[00:15:58] Dominique Hadad: Yeah. And if someone maybe is listening and feeling like, "Oh, that's great, but like, that's not me." You know, like, "Great. Shelly has this potential in her that I don't have." 

[00:16:09] Dominique Hadad: Like was there anything you leaned on or like things that you can help us ground with, with what helps you go from like imposter syndrome feeling that I think we, a lot of us relate to, to like, " I figured it out." 

[00:16:20] Shelly Douglas: Yeah, I think at the end of the day I'm a people pleaser and the community is counting on me. So I think that no matter how tired I get, and you know, there's just days where you're just like, "Oh, I don't wanna go to work, I don't wanna do that." For this job specifically, I know that those 72,000 trees we distributed are supporting other people's projects and other people's timelines, and I would never want to be a hindrance to those people.

[00:16:48] Shelly Douglas: And so that's kind of my, where my motivation comes from is, you know, I don't wanna let these people down because they're in my shoes. I'm in their shoes. I understand what happens if people don't deliver when they say they're gonna deliver. But I think that it's important to mention that I said I'm our only staff person. Everyone else who does all this work is a volunteer. Even you know, the people planting the 72,000 trees. I am not planting every single one of those trees. I needed 4,000 other people to help me. And the fact that people show up to help with these things and it's not their job at all, they just wanna come and help. To me, makes me feel really grateful that this is my job. Like I am being paid to be there and do this thing that other people are coming because they just wanna do. And I think the passion for the cause is really the driver at the end of the day. 

[00:17:39] Shelly Douglas: I think it's, you know, a pretty common thought that the nonprofit realm, "You don't go into if you wanna make a lot of money" or, "You're only in it for the career drive." And that's, you know, true in a way but I think that the relationships that I've made and the accomplishments that I've made and the things that I'm gonna be able to go back and look at, you know, so far I'm responsible for over a 100,000 trees being planted in Central Ohio. That's something that even when I have a hard day, I can look back on and be like, "That was all worth it. Let's do it again." Like it's kind of, you forget about how kind of hard it was because the outcome is so good. But, I think that I am just like everyone else, I have a really hard time getting started with tasks. I'm like scared to make phone calls sometimes. I, you know, am rehearsing things in my car before meetings and I think that just believing in the cause is what puts that all away. I'm not really embarrassed to go in and ask for money because if I don't get it, I know this tree planting project's not gonna happen. And that's like, don't want that. I like, can't live with myself if I know I've, you know, left that on the table. And so it's kind of like putting yourself aside and just focusing on the goal and thinking about that end moment of you standing there and the trees being in the ground. And that's my motivation for like, "Okay, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna ask for it."

[00:19:03] Adam Morris: I think that's a very important point, just in general. Like, quite often we get so caught up in how others are perceiving us or you know, what our own capabilities are, but being able to say, "Hey, there's something bigger than me that's going on here. It's not about me. I'm gonna set that aside and I'm going to do what's uncomfortable because this bigger purpose is so much more important." So that's a great point.

[00:19:28] Dominique Hadad: Yeah, I feel like that, I mean our audience here probably all has the same kind of sentiment of like, and that's why I love the world of sustainability. I can agree that it just, everything we do, whether we're maybe the best at it or we're just the most excited about it, like it's fun that you're like, "It's not just for me." And I feel like that's a cool part of like. Do you think, is that like a part of what's kept you doing a hard thing in like a pretty exhausting job? Is it like you just can't imagine being somewhere else that's other than the planet or you know, like what keeps you motivated?

[00:20:04] Shelly Douglas: Yeah. Well I think, I mean, to be very honest, the reason I stuck with it and after I had a very hard transition and I applied for executive director still is just that this is exactly what I wanted to do. Like I wanted to be in the nonprofit world working with people, understanding the environment. But after, you know, I was kind of outta the mindset of, you know, it's just a job and I have to keep it. 

[00:20:28] Shelly Douglas: It's the people, I think. It's going out into the community and talking with people about these things I'm passionate about and like having someone there to, that this is new information to them is really exciting. Because like I said, I've been stressed about the environment since I was 10 years old. So like I've watched every sad movie and I know everything I need to know. And so when I can kind of open up this world for someone else. And you know, we do a lot of work in the community with trees and if I can have a conversation with someone and they come up and say, you know, "I don't like trees, 'cause the leaves" and whatnot, and they can walk away understanding why trees are important? That's a win. And I feel like I've made a difference today because, you know, somebody walked away understanding an aspect of the environment that they didn't before. And so those kind of rewards are what keep me going. And just the fact that I'm 25 and I have the opportunity to kind of guide my own career and sit in rooms that people have waited years and years and years to be in makes me feel very lucky. And so, I feel like I owe it to myself to see where I can take it. And at this point, I just don't wanna give it to anyone else. I feel like I am the best person in the best position to do it, and I have the most understanding. And so that was kind of like the switch. Was like, "Oh, I'm just a imposter in here, keeping the boat afloat." And now I'm," I wouldn't trust this with anyone else." So now I'm like, "It's mine and you can't have it."

[00:22:09] Adam Morris: I love that. So if you had to go back and talk to your 10-year-old self, what would you tell yourself about the future possibilities?

[00:22:17] Dominique Hadad: Would you tell them why trees are important?

[00:22:23] Shelly Douglas: Yeah, I'd probably lecture her on, you know, why trees are important and then I would tell her to chill out. Like, just relax and chill out. And that if you're passionate about something and you know, you like to talk about it and you're good at it, things are gonna work out. I had so much stress about getting this connection and getting in this student organization and all these steps, and then I, at the end of the day, tripped and fell into this position that is perfect for me. And so that's my advice for students a lot too, is just focus on figuring out what you're passionate about and figuring out the niche of what you wanna do, and then the rest will kind of fall together. That's what I would tell her. Yeah.

[00:23:08] Dominique Hadad: I mean, that made me feel more motivated and confident, like even just. So that's, thank you for having that like very beautiful view on like how life works out. I was curious to hear like, you alluded to like why trees are important, but like if you could leave us with a sentiment of, in case somebody doesn't really know why trees are important, let's level the playing field. Why are trees important?

[00:23:31] Shelly Douglas: Absolutely. So Green Columbus does tree giveaways, we do tree plantings, and we do a lot of education on what we call Tree Equity. And kind of the sentiment of that is that everyone should have access to a robust tree canopy. So, American Forests recommends an urban canopy like Columbus to be 40%. 40-48%. Columbus overall is 22%, so we're missing the mark there citywide. But there's pockets of our city that are even lower. So that's where the equity part comes in. There's communities like, you know, Clintonville in Columbus has a really old, reallly full tree canopy. And then there's communities like the south side, South Linden, who have experienced redlining, historic disinvestment, which have led to them not having trees. And so this might kind of seem like just like a beautification thing, but it has really deep impacts. 

[00:24:36] Shelly Douglas: Communities with less trees have higher rates of asthma, higher rates of heart disease. Trees can actually reduce crime. Studies have shown that a 10% increase in trees leads to a 12% decrease in crime. And this is true across all types of communities, cities, rural. And so that's another thing that we're kind of talking about is that communities with more trees have better community involvement. They're more resilient. People care about their community more. It's kind of the same sentiment of like a litter cleanup. If something is completely, totally littered, what's one more piece of trash on the ground? But if it's pristine and like you're one piece of trash, people might be a little hesitant. 

[00:25:20] Shelly Douglas: So, communities with more trees are healthier. They're cooler. We have the fastest growing urban heat island in the country here in Columbus, Ohio. So it's getting hotter in our downtown pockets and our low canopy pockets, faster than anywhere else in the country.

[00:25:37] Dominique Hadad: Yeah, not a strong point of varsity.

[00:25:39] Shelly Douglas: No, it is not. And so we have a lot of communities that are living in multifamily homes. They don't have air conditioning or their utility costs are really, really high. And if you recall these past couple of summers, we've had days over a hundred degrees. I know my power was out for two days. I lost everything in my fridge. It was like 90 degrees in my house. So, trees and yards and shading homes are gonna be essential to reduce heat related death moving forward. And, overall, they're good for the environment. I've only really talked about how they benefit us or how the lack of them affects us. But they're great for pollinators. They're great for stormwater runoff. And they're great for particulates in the air, which some of our communities here in Columbus have a lot of, like the south side 'cause it's located near a lot of industry. So, basically we think everyone deserves equal access, equitable access to tree canopy, and it's not currently that way, so. Just trying to get more trees into those communities that need 'em.

[00:26:42] Adam Morris: I love this. Well, and I'm so excited to dive into this further in our next episode as we go further into Green Columbus. With that said, how do people find out about you and support you? 

[00:26:52] Shelly Douglas: Yeah. So you can visit us at our website. It is greencbus.org. And if you're interested in Earth Day specifically, we actually have a separate website for that, earthdaycolumbus.org. And then you can follow us on Instagram. It's green_columbus, and then we're also on Facebook.

[00:27:12] Adam Morris: That's fantastic. Well, and it's been so fun just hearing your journey of like 10-year-old you and learning this to where you've gone now and kind of pushing through some of those barriers. But for me, like one of my big takeaways was just that "Hey, develop that curiosity around what you're passionate about and follow that." Don't try to stress out about actually finding the thing because it's gonna come to you.

[00:27:34] Dominique Hadad: Yeah. And I think just like the fact, the image of you just sitting in your car preparing for a meeting and remembering that this is all for a bigger purpose of I am a steward of a hundred thousand trees" and like, "It's gotta be Shelly, it's gotta be me." I just really like that. And thank you for chatting with us today.

[00:27:51] Adam Morris: Plus if you're listening and you're like, "Oh, wow. 72,000 trees. How could I plant one of those? Well, if you're living in Ohio, Shelly needs volunteers for all of her projects.

[00:28:00] Dominique Hadad: Yeah, stick around for this next episode to hear about that whole side of things.

[00:28:05] Dominique Hadad: All right, so thank you, Shelly.

[00:28:07] Shelly Douglas: Thank you so much.

[00:28:08] Dominique Hadad: All right. As always, our guests are chosen because they have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We're here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you have the power to create sustainable change. 

[00:28:21] Adam Morris: If you know a green champion, that should be our next guest, email us at thegreenchampions@gmail.com or check out our show notes on thegreenchampions.com. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep championing for a brighter, greener world.

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