Mary Leciejewski - Digging Into Data to Divert Waste

[00:00:00] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:13] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people making environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:20] Dominique: I am so glad to be here alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community, and done something pretty cool about it.

[00:00:29] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:36] Dominique: Today Adam and I are joined by Mary Leciejewski. She was previously the zero waste manager for the Ohio State University. She now serves as the associate director of environmental sustainability for the Ohio State University's Facility Operations and Development Team.

So you may hear us referring to that group as FOD, and today we're talking about Mary's journey into these roles, creating impact on a really large scale for waste initiatives and facility operations. Thanks for joining us, Mary.

[00:01:02] Mary: Thanks for having me. 

[00:01:03] Dominique: would you describe your role?

[00:01:04] Mary: I've been in sustainability for eight years at Ohio State in different roles as a sustainability coordinator, I started off one of my main roles was working on the Ohio Stadium Zero Waste Program, which is the largest stadium in the country to continuously achieve a zero waste status, which is over 90% diversion and then I transitioned into the zero waste manager role, which was focused on achieving diversion for all of campus and increasing the diversion rate for all of campus. And then currently, I'm in the associate director role of sustainability, and it's pretty new. It's only a month in. That will be focusing on all the strategic planning and how to integrate sustainability throughout operations.

[00:01:42] Dominique: And what does it mean to work for FOD as an organization and like just FOD itself? How do you describe how it fits into the university?

[00:01:48] Mary: FOD does all of the work so that the core operations of teaching and learning, research engagement and also patient care can happen. So FOD manages over 14 million square feet, including hospital. So they do all of that maintenance work. They managed over 300 acres of lawn. There's over 17,000 trees on campus that they take care of sidewalks and roads. It's everything so that people can have a safe and productive time on campus.

[00:02:15] Dominique: Just for like sense of scale for our listeners, that's just quite a bit like the Ohio State University is large enough, but then thinking about like referring to this big campus that also includes a medical center and all these different activities that like cannot skip an hour of operation time. So that's a lot to consider. 

[00:02:33] Adam: 17,000 trees that's a ton.

[00:02:36] Mary: That's right. That's exactly right. And we just finished our tree inventory. So yeah, Steve Schneider and all of the tree folks on campus worked on that one. 

[00:02:44] Dominique: So how would you describe your role you described FOD, but then zero waste for someone who's not as familiar. You mentioned 90% diversion. But for someone outta that space who maybe just walks around their community not thinking about that kinda stuff all the time. How do you think about your role with zero waste?

[00:02:57] Mary: Within facilities, there's a small sustainability team, small but mighty sustainability team. We have a Data Analyst, a Water Engineer, Assistant Director of Sustainability, and then we have a person situated in athletics as well as focusing on the medical center. So all of those folks kind of are within FOD and then zero waste itself.

So that role oversaw the operations. So we have a small refuse operations on campus. We have, I think 9 different trash trucks that probably pick up about 60% of the material on campus. The other material has to be contracted out so that team also oversees the contracting piece, but then we also do all the strategic planning for zero waste.

So we do like assessments of our waste stream. So looking "Okay, like what are we throwing away?" How could we eliminate waste upstream? 

So that's probably our first pillar. 

The second pillar is how can we increase the materials going to the materials recovery facility or the murf? And then lastly like composting. How can we capture as much composting material as possible?

[00:03:51] Dominique: That's quite a bit. And you're not just thinking about how the material gets managed and what you're creating as a university, but you're actually in charge of also hauling it. And monitoring the people and the equipment to make that possible all the time.

[00:04:02] Mary: We have a great team. We have a wonderful manager, Tim Bell, who sees the day-to-day operations, and then we have a team of 7 employees right now.

[00:04:10] Dominique: How common is it for universities to manage their own hauling?

[00:04:14] Mary: So I think it depends on where you are and the size right? If you're a small school, it doesn't make sense for you to have your own hauling operation. 

[00:04:21] Dominique: It's definitely not the norm, but there are other universities out there making that decision.

[00:04:25] Mary: Oh, absolutely. 

[00:04:25] Dominique: Okay. I mean, it makes sense. I just wasn't sure how unique that was 'cause that does feel like a tall order to take on, but economically intelligent from a long-term perspective.

[00:04:35] Mary: That's right. I think it really makes sense for us as a zero waste operation because our team is integrated with our sustainability work. And so like our frontline staff will provide data and even anecdotal data to us that like an external hauler wouldn't provide. So like our staff will tell us like, "Hey, this location is throwing out a lot of food waste in their dumpster. Make sure you add more composting toters." Or they'll come in and say, "Hey, they're throwing away a lot of food that looks good. Maybe you could connect them with food recovery." And so you're never gonna get that from an external hauler that like level of communication. And then we also track building by building waste. And so our staff, when they go pick up a location, they track like how full was the dumpster? How many toters were full? 

[00:05:16] Dominique: You're able to get the actual data you need and how granular you need it to be to make decisions. 

[00:05:21] Mary: Yeah, that's exactly right.

[00:05:22] Adam: That seems like a lot of data to track.

I'm curious, like how did you get into this work? Like where did this start from?

[00:05:28] Mary: It is such a good question. How did we end up here? The first part of my journey started, so I grew up in Cleveland. I came from a very like service oriented family and the service oriented community. It would've been uncommon if we weren't always collecting food for some food bank, collecting clothes for the Goodwill.

 So they were very engaged in the community and so that was just part of how you live your life. And then when I went to St. Joseph Academy it was really like the nuns, which is kind of surprising, they were really environmentally minded and they would frame it as like a respect for creation, but they were driving natural gas cars in like 2005. So they were definitely ahead of the game.

So there were like these little pieces and parts that helped me to start thinking like, "Oh, the environment is important." And then when I went to college, I went to Providence College in Rhode Island. And I got my undergraduate degree in public and community service studies. And if for folks who went to Ohio State, it's probably similar to EEDS Dom, you know, the acronym, what is it? 

[00:06:24] Dominique: Environment, Economy, Development, sustainability. And if there's a listener who wants to know more about it. We did an episode with Neil Drobny about how he built the program.

[00:06:31] Mary: So it was probably similar to EEDS but it had a big service learning component. All of the core classes, you were always had to be out in the community with a different organization volunteering your time. 

And then I found myself at Southside Community Land Trust. And it was an urban agriculture organization that provided food for the hungry, but also space for a lot of immigrant populations to have their own community gardens.

They had community support agriculture. So I was like running a farmer's market and

[00:06:57] Adam: Oh, that's a cool. it sounds like you might must have gotten to be in contact with a lot of very diverse people in that.

[00:07:03] Mary: Yeah, absolutely. And so it was really eye-opening. Like I think it's easy in college to kind of focus in on yourself. And so I was really lucky to find that program that said like, "No, you need to think outside yourself. You're not just on this campus, but you're also within this community." And there I really started to put together some of the pieces of how the environment affects public health and also is connected to environmental justice. Then I got my grad degree at Ohio University in a Master's of Science of Environmental Studies with a focus on environmental justice.

[00:07:33] Adam: I just wanna highlight that point if there are students who are listening, the importance of getting out and getting involved in the community, I've noticed that again and again of students who are very successful after college are those that have taken steps to get outside the university doors.

[00:07:46] Mary: Yeah. 

[00:07:47] Dominique: Was grad school the pivot where you really knew it was going towards this environmental focus?

[00:07:52] Mary: Yeah, absolutely. And so that's probably when I started that grad program, I knew that I wanted to have an environmental focus and wanted to like learn more deeply about the environment. This is just like a kind of a funny anecdote. I had a graduate assistantship. I was in a department and like the professor was, I don't think had the time for me and so like, I found myself like grading papers, and of course like being an overachiever, I was like, I'm supposed to be working 20 hours a week. 

 I almost thought I was like cheating the system. And so I went to the Office of Sustainability and I was like, "Look, I'm not doing enough. Like can I do something here? And the woman who was running the office at the time was so smart 'cause she called the professor who was supposed to be like, mentoring me.

And she basically said like, "We'll take care of her." And so then I was able to work in the Office of Sustainability for the rest of my grad program. 

[00:08:37] Dominique: What did that work look like?

[00:08:39] Mary: A lot of different things, very similar to what we're doing at Ohio State. At that time they had an energy campaign. So trying to encourage students to reduce their energy consumption on campus. They helped with some of the recycling work. They ran this program called Recycle Mania, which is now called Race to Zero Waste, which is like an intercollegiate national competition that happens every year to try to like benchmark and then also have like friendly competition among campuses. We ran a farmer's market. It was kind of like ran the gamut of everything, sustainability. They also had an eco house too where three students were picked to live and model sustainable behaviors. 

[00:09:12] Adam: Eco House. So like the students were responsible for incorporating this stuff? That sounds really interesting.

[00:09:20] Mary: I won't get on too much of a tangent on that one, but they gave tours of their house and it was like pretty basic stuff. " Oh, you can like hang dry your laundry." They had solar panels. 

[00:09:29] Dominique: You mentioned a lot of really cool stuff you had to work on, but none of that sounds like zero waste or facilities work.

it's still on brand, but I'm curious, did you intentionally move towards zero waste logistics facilities, or how did you make that pivot from like gardens and community work?

[00:09:44] Mary: Yeah. I mean, I think I just kind of fell into it. I don't know if it was intentional, but it became really clear to me. I then worked at the University of Albany for three years. And did a little bit more facilities work. And then when I found myself at Ohio State, it became clear to me that operational efficiency is sustainability. Like the fewer items you're buying, the less you're creating, the less transport there is. There's a lot and additional, like obviously there's cost savings associated with that. And so it made sense ' cause I think what I was struggling with in my mid twenties when I was doing some of that work was like, it was hard to measure your impact, right? You could say, I reached out to so many people, or I built this garden, or held this many farmer's market, but I wanted like tangible KPIs. And when you're in facilities, we have an annual scorecard that goes to the board of trustees on our resource towards our goals. And so I think that's what I like about, I like the framework.

[00:10:34] Dominique: You want something more measurable and like data driven?

[00:10:37] Mary: Mm-hmm. That's exactly right.

[00:10:38] Dominique: Was your school education data driven? I'm just kinda curious 'cause that is, it's cool that, that's interesting to you. If someone's listening and thinks it's interesting, do you have to study that? 

[00:10:46] Mary: Did you have to study that? Like, I would say yes and no. A lot of my work in grad school was more qualitative, but since then, like I work at Ohio State, one of the best benefits about working at Ohio State is that you get a tuition reimbursement.

So I've taken like a couple of business classes. I originally was a math major way back then. always. 

[00:11:04] Dominique: You like numbers.

[00:11:05] Mary: I do, yeah. I do like numbers. And so I've kind of like gained that partially in the classroom, but also on the job.

[00:11:14] Adam: I mean, I think that's interesting. I've seen this theme kind of come up again and again, that a lot of the great sustainability work is around collecting that data and having those numbers. 

How has that helped change things in the work that your doing?

[00:11:25] Mary: The classic example is like you cannot manage what you don't measure, right? But with zero waste, at least, we derive our strategy based on our waste characterization studies that we contract out. So. for those who aren't familiar with the waste characterization study, it's when you kind of go through the waste material and put it into different categories.

[00:11:43] Adam: Just make that sound like, "Yeah, this is just something that we do", but that means you're actually digging through the trash.

[00:11:48] Mary: Well. Yes. it's a huge undertaking and so we do work with a contractor to help with that. What's exciting is that we can bring students who are interested in sustainability to help do that. I know, Dom, you were one of them many, many times over. And so we did this like large scale waste characterization study. It was funded by advanced drainage system with help from Josh Knights and the Sustainability Institute to get that funding 'cause it is expensive. You're exactly right. It takes a lot of effort. 

And so you divide the waste into, I think we had 19 different categories and we had seven different building categories. So we did look at, "Okay, what's coming from an academic building? What's coming from the medical center? What's coming from kind of like event spaces, residence halls?" And then you see what's going on in your waste stream. And then from there you can, decide what to tackle. And it was really clear to us when we did our waste characterization study that organics was the biggest opportunity.

So organic material, which includes like food scraps, paper towels, like those compostable materials that. We're also familiar with now that made up nearly 27% of our waste stream. And at that point we had a compost program that maybe had collected material from 39 locations, but we knew we could expand and so we used that data to then make the argument that we need a composting system if we're gonna move the needle.

[00:13:02] Dominique: Our next episode will be more about how that's like taken place and the impact that you've created there. And we've heard the same thing that like the impact of doing a study like that has been a catalyst for other organizations.

Like, we just had an episode with Joya Elmore from the Wellington School, and a waste study at that school sparked the realization of like where to prioritize effort and starting to understand, to your point of like being a young person and not knowing what your impact is, that helped high school students be like, "Oh, this is our collective impact."

And like, there's a number to it. It guided their efforts. And then Zach Wells from Florin Coffee which is a zero waste cafe. Same story of like, " Oh, our impact actually's huge as a tiny cafe" and now I can like look at it and that's really helpful. So it's just cool to hear that echoed across the board and like that it's the same practice being used at larger universities, that it's like prioritized and that's a big guiding part of your sustainability efforts.

Sustainability also can feel very fluffy and imaginary at times, especially as it gets more and more like topical. So I appreciate when we can talk about like, where did you begin? Like what do you have at your disposal literally to, uh, to measure it. We'll get Zane to put some drums in there, but yeah. I just think that's really interesting and like helpful from someone on the outside who's like, how would you even begin with a university that's the size of a city. So you begin with like a really intense large scale waste study

[00:14:25] Mary: And it's the same thing so no matter what you're trying to move the needle on in sustainability, it's the same thing with energy. Like you'd find your biggest energy users with water, with ecosystem services, we have a great team, in pair that like maps the campus and looks at like how we're using our landscapes. That helps us then make decisions to try to move those towards more natural habitats.

So. I think you're exactly right, but you're also an engineer so you get it. 

[00:14:49] Dominique: Yeah.

I'm also a numbers person. 

So we're a little biased, but I think it's interesting and it's nice to hear where you come from, which is why we do the two episodes.As someone who has like a more analytical brain, and how you approach this can be different than somebody else, but I think it's always nice to hear kind of the inner workings of like what drives that person and how they think. 

[00:15:06] Mary: And I think the other piece of it too is like, it gives you the language to make your case. 'cause sometimes people, especially students when they're trying to advocate for something, they're trying to say, this is the right thing to do.

Yes, you know that, but let's put that in data, which is the language that our leadership so often speaks that like they're gonna have only so much time and they wanna be able to look at a scorecard and then make decisions based on on 

[00:15:30] Dominique: That is another unique piece of your role that you kind of have to not only lead something very large scale and deal with stakeholders and leadership, but you have to also bring students along and you kind of get like, I view it as like kind of getting like your shoulder tap all the time from students being like, "Hey, why aren't we doing this?" Because I know that was me as a student and I guess it was you. Yeah.

[00:15:48] Mary: Yeah. But I think that's really important 'cause it grounds us in like, there is always more to do. and I think sometimes the narrative about young people is that they don't care, that they're on social media, like,

 . 

And it's the not the case. There's so many passionate students that if they weren't advocating for some of these changes, we wouldn't have been able to make them. 

[00:16:10] Adam: But one thing that I'm hearing you say is having that data to back up what you're advocating is really important. Because that's how leadership needs to make decisions. They need data to back up the decisions. 

[00:16:20] Mary: That's right. And of course there's the environmental impact data, but there's also the financial data as well. 

[00:16:25] Dominique: When thinking about like students or other community members maybe that are coming in like new to the space, what do people not know about how universities approach sustainability that you wish they did?

[00:16:35] Mary: When I think of a university and sustainability, I think we're uniquely situated compared to business in some ways to really pilot and implement solutions. Like if you think of a business that has quarterly reports and has to show profits, a university knows they're gonna be in the community for the long term. And so if they build a building, they know they're gonna operate it, they plan to operate it into the next century versus a business might not be thinking on that time horizon 

when we're working with facilities design and construction, it's easier to make the argument like, "Hey, we need to make this building as energy efficient as possible, or to have whatever water low flow fixture X, Y, Z."

So I think that's really important. The other piece that I'll say is the university is a pillar in the community. So it can take the form of different collaborations in the community in many different ways from like student researchers, student community service, as well as other community engagement.

 Is there a competitive nature between universities around sustainability? Yes. Yes. First of all, we're competitive about everything, 

[00:17:38] Dominique: Yeah. That's why. Yeah. 

I know there's been like Al Green the Wolverines in the past, like coupling sustainability pushes with the Ohio State Michigan competition. 

Yeah. Sensitive topic right now.

[00:17:51] Mary: I, yeah, I think it's right. Extra sensitive. but when we think of like where did this journey begin for Ohio State, part of it began of course with energy efficiency.

In 2005, we built a lot of buildings that before we had our energy policy in place, policy 310, which said that any building over four million dollars had to be at least lead silver certified. And those buildings, I think they took up like 8% of the square footage, but were energy hogs, they were taking up 12% of the whole energy profile of the university. So it was like, "well, we need to stop the bleed here. We need to start designing our buildings differently."

And then the other place where sustainability started for Ohio State is with the Ohio State Stadium program. I think it probably started to get traction around 2008 and it was kind of a national conversation of like who could have the greenest stadium on game day. That journey of like seven or eight years of trying to get to zero waste brought the concepts of zero waste in front of leadership. And then it got the facilities teams, especially like in a sports athletics context on board. And then of course we won. 

No, there's many places that are doing zero waste to their stadium, it took a couple of years. And so those were interesting conversations.

[00:19:02] Dominique: Yeah. And we also did actually chat with Graham Oberly. 

[00:19:06] Mary: Did you? 

[00:19:07] Dominique: That being a really big part of his journey. So that was a previous episode. I hope listeners can listen to that. If you're curious about more of that, like Ohio State reaching zero waste for the stadium, But it is really cool. I think like sustainability can hang out in this, like anxiety driven maybe like inconvenient, not so fun space occasionally. 

And I think it's cool to kind of shift gears and think about it in like competitive athletics. I think it is really great that that crossover has been successful and that so many people are familiar with seeing it in that space. that is, I think just so cool. 

[00:19:37] Mary: Yeah when people come to campus, the first thing they think of is the Ohio State buckeye is like on the football field. And so that's our front porch and so it's also like, has just such a rippling effect throughout the community. 

[00:19:49] Dominique: Yeah. Which is also really cool that the same university is doing a lot of cool stuff with composting, which I'm excited about.on our next nice episode. But before we get into the next episode, will you help queue us up with maybe like some idea of the impact of your work so far? 

[00:20:00] Mary: I think what we're really proud of within our sustainability resource stewardship scorecard is when the university set our sustainability resource stewardship goals in 2015 and they benchmarked the eight different resource stewardship goals, zero waste was at a 29.2% diversion rate. Since that time. So it's been nearly a decade. We've grown to a 41% diversion rate. Which we're really excited about. 

[00:20:25] Dominique: That's a really great jump. But like truly the size very back to the beginning. The university is, I think the fourth largest university in the US, something like that. And it's next to a medical center that is so big, it makes the university seem like the accessory. 

[00:20:42] Mary: Yeah. So we're really proud of that. And then if you were just to measure Columbus campus alone and exclude the medical center spaces, like the medical center spaces are just more challenging. If you're going to a medical center, everything has an over wrap of plastic. It's a function of providing care, if the university would be at nearly a 50% diversion rate in itself so we're very proud of that. 

[00:21:00] Dominique: I'm excited to understand more about how you did that in our next episode.

[00:21:04] Mary: Well, 

it's been a lot. It's been a team effort and it wouldn't be possible without leadership support.

[00:21:09] Dominique: Do you feel like there's been something special you've added to the mix to make this possible? Can you think of maybe like something you've leaned into during, I mean this jump was with your leadership. As much as you'd like to be bashful and act like it hasn't been a big part of, you know, Mary's doing. 

[00:21:22] Mary: I think what I've learned to do and really honestly, I have to give a lot of credit to a perna dial who has like shown me the way to do it is like, sometimes you just have to pilot things and knowing how to start on a small scale and then think big, start small and then scale fast is really kind of like my mantra.

 And like a good example is with our compost drop off program. So that started in 2021. Molly Kathleen led the effort to get who's the Zero Waste Consultant. And on our team, she led the effort to get the, like a small scale grant from SWACO, like maybe it was like 10 or 15K. And it was just one of those things where it was like, "Okay, we should just try it."

People have been asking for it, for a place to bring their compostable waste. It wasn't our core business at that time. And like I would've told you like, " Okay, if we get like a hundred people to sign up and schlep their food scraps from home, like it would be a success." And it has been so surprising how overwhelming, and positive the response has been from our staff and faculty and, and students.

So I think there are over 4,000 staff and faculty who have signed up and we give away little compost buckets and they divert their food scraps. They use our system with now seven different drop off locations to divert their food scraps from landfill.

[00:22:35] Adam: I love that.

[00:22:36] Dominique: That's a lot of people to be voluntarily involved. you really have such a positive reaction. 

[00:22:41] Mary: Yeah. I really do think, I have questioned like, "why is composting, why is that the thing that people are really into?" I think sometimes the environmental message can go negative. And it has a tendency to say "Stop doing X, Y, Z," and it can feel very judgmental. 

[00:22:58] Dominique: It feels like parenting a kid.

Like, like you, you don't tell a kid what not to do. You tell a kid what to do. 

[00:23:03] Mary: yeah.

[00:23:03] Adam: Composting is really satisfying when you actually see, "Hey, oh, here's the stuff, and it could go and sit in the landfill and turn into methane, but no, it's actually gonna be reused."

Those nutrients are gonna go back in the ground. And you're like, it's this much, like there's some satisfaction there.

[00:23:17] Mary: And I think part of the satisfaction too, because it's so tangible and it feels not painful, but it feels like effort, right? Like you're getting your compost bag, you put it in your car, you're driving it to a drop off location and it's kind of messy. And so I think people like, there's an extra feel good feel about it of like, I'm going above and beyond. 

[00:23:33] Dominique: Yeah. Like rewarding. 

That's an interesting take and I think that makes sense. Yeah. I think a lot of sustainability is telling us "Well, you can't have a straw," all these things that have become popular as the topical thing around what it means to be sustainable. And a lot of it is like sacrificing, giving something up, not like adopting a new habit. 

[00:23:50] Mary: That's exactly right. And with composting, once you get it in your routine, it's easy to do. the hardest part is like getting a bucket, learning what goes in it and then like setting up your kitchen or your food space. Once that's done and it's just part of like your household chores every week, it's not that hard.

[00:24:06] Dominique: Amazing. Well, thank you for chatting with us. Next time we're gonna get into more of your story with reaching zero waste for the university and how some of those numbers came to be and what's been key milestones in making it possible. 

[00:24:17] Mary: Yeah. How can people support you or connect with the work that you're doing? 

Absolutely. There is a website. you can go and find FOD Facilities, Operations and Development Sustainability. and if you're interested in composting, I have 4,000 composting buckets in my office. If you're a student, staff or faculty member on campus, and I would love to give them away to you.

[00:24:35] Adam: Wonderful. Well thank you for joining us today. As always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We are here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change. 

[00:24:47] Dominique: You can find our episodes at thegreenchampions.com. If you wanna stay in the loop, give us a review and follow us your favorite podcast platform. If you have questions about climate change or sustainability, you can reach us on our website at thegreenchampions.com. Our music is by the Zane Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions.

We'll dig in to another sustainability success story with Mary in our next episode.

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