Lisa Goldsand - The Hyperlocal Advantage for Thrifting

[00:00:10] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to our episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:13] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:21] Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and have done something about it.

[00:00:32] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:39] Dominique: So whether you're tuning in during your ride to work, maybe you're relaxing at home or walking through your neighborhood, today, Adam and I are joined by Lisa Goldsand.

[00:00:49] Adam: She is the founder of Circular Thrift. They're a convenient clothing pickup and drop off service, as well as a company that runs community swap events. So today we're gonna talk about sustainability as it relates to fashion and really dive into the work that Lisa's doing at Circular Thrift. Last time we got to hear from Lisa on really the role of the sustainable consumer to create change in the fashion space. We talked a lot about how we can take a look at how many items we consume and shift that behavior to something else, and also how we can impact big corporations and brands by our own behaviors. So a lot of it's paying attention to what we do and changing our habits, shifting them to things that are more focused on reuse. So, Lisa, welcome back on.

[00:01:34] Lisa: Hello, both of you. I'm so glad to be here with you again.

[00:01:38] Dominique: I feel like I have not gotten through all the things I wanna ask you, so I'm so glad we get a second episode with you to really dive into why you're a green champion. But also, maybe we can ask some lingering questions from our last conversation.

[00:01:49] Lisa: Wait, I thought I was on the show now. I thought I'm with you every episode. 

[00:01:51] Adam: Every episode. 

[00:01:52] Lisa: Oh, this is just one more time. Okay, got it. Got it. We have to talk really fast.

[00:01:55] Adam: Permanently, you are gonna be a new fixture on our show. I would take that any day. 

[00:02:00] Adam: Can we start off, can you tell us a little bit about Circular Thrift?

[00:02:05] Lisa: So I started Circular Thrift almost 15 months ago now. And basically what I did was I went to Lowe's and I bought a metal trash can and some two by fours and some double stick Velcro and some painting canvases, And so I made these collection bins, which have very little plastic on them that also have sort of modular signage, And I got permission on November 1st to place collection bins in each of the lower schools of my community. I live in Bexley, Ohio. 

[00:02:38] Lisa: And the sign was, I was collecting Halloween costumes. And so I thought that just by focusing in on one product category at a time, that might make it easier for consumers to become a little sort of unstuck about the idea of, "Oh, woe is me. I have so much stuff, where does all go?" right? 

[00:02:58] Lisa: And to just have them sort out one product category of on their own and put it someplace. And, that was how I started. And it worked. I collected hundreds of costumes. I, um, held onto them and I, you know, stored them. And I sold them in the fall to people who I presume weren't wearing two Halloween costumes, right? So I'm presuming a hundred percent replacement rate of what they bought for me versus what they didn't buy someplace else. 

[00:03:23] Lisa: And so that was my first test and learn. And I'm still very much in test and learn of course. So in addition to collecting, so I have collection bins in publicly accessible places throughout Bexley. So like the city hall and the public library, the Student Union of Capital University, which is really a part of the Bexley ecosystem. And so I have these collection bins. And I'll just, you know, people just drop things off me. Honestly, at this point, people drive to my house and drop off car loads of their belongings, but that's another story. I'll never say who you are. I promise I'll never share your name. No, but, so I'm just making it as easy as possible for people to offload things that they don't want anymore, So that was how I started. 

[00:04:07] Lisa: And then the next big first thing that I did in January of '23 was I helped to organize a largely student run, but community-wide event just focused again on one product category. So we did a formal wear swap and Capital University very kindly offered their Student Union space for the event. And there were students from Columbus School for girls, Bexley High School and Capital, who all worked together on this event. And so that was really where I started to think like, "Okay, people can get their minds around kinda one thing at a time." So I have had nine swaps in a 12 month period. So, a couple for kids, one for newborns and maternity, a couple for women, different, you know, different product categories, different times of the year. I did a ski wear swap and I'm just kind of learning as I go.

[00:05:02] Dominique: So I think you have painted that really well and have given us a nice visual of like different use cases for what you're doing. 

[00:05:09] Dominique: But just for someone who's listening and still doesn't really get how you're not just like a thrift store, can you just re-clarify for someone like how Circular Thrift differs from what we're used to seeing when it comes to thrift stores?

[00:05:21] Lisa: So my mission is to scale the reuse of clothing and accessories by making it as easy as possible to a hyperlocal level for people to do that. And my mission is to valorize post-consumer textile waste. I know that sounds so unsexy. But I want to, I'll say it again, I'll say it again 'to valorize post-consumer textile waste.' So basically what that means is whatever it is, people who may be the first owners of something, whatever it is that people are done using, we should figure out how to get as much value, how to keep that thing in circulation for as long as possible.

[00:05:57] Lisa: So if you picture a pyramid, right at the very, very top of that pyramid is resale, right? So if I collect and sort something that has big resale value, the first thing I'm gonna try to do is sell it. So I have an online store and I also have a series of offline sales through, usually from my trike. So I have a, an adorable. I live my best life riding this trike around my neighborhood.

[00:06:22] Dominique: We were hoping you'd get to the we, you'd get to the bike. So this great.

[00:06:25] Adam: Describe this trike. Tell us what it looks like.

[00:06:28] Lisa: Okay, so the trike, it's custom. I think there's only four companies in the US that make these things. it's called Haley Tricycles. And I do wanna mention the guy who makes these is in North Philadelphia and his business is on the second floor of a converted horse stable from a dying factory from the 1800s.

[00:06:47] Adam: We should bike over there.

[00:06:48] Dominique: Yeah. We should take our bikes. 

[00:06:50] Lisa: So he helped, so when I met with him, I talked to him about what my intended use was for this item. And so the trike is actually two wheels. It's not three, so it's actually not a trike, so whatever you wanna call it. And so the box sits in front of the back wheel and in front of the seat and you basically put all of the stuff that you're gonna sell, you know, into the box. My box is almost completely open inside. There's one shelf. Other boxes could have all kinds of compartments depending on what the vendor wants to do with it. 

[00:07:23] Lisa: So anyway, when I get to the place where I wanna sell, I open up the top and it hooks onto the side so that I have two racks on either side of the box so I can hang things. And then the top has a panel that basically creates a countertop. So it's just, it's so fun 'cause literally, it's the definition of meeting the consumer where they are, right? You know 'cause it's just like, as long as, of course you have permission from whoever you know, whatever landlord has that space, and no one has ever said no to me. People are so, you know, gracious and generous. Then you can go and sell things.

[00:07:57] Dominique: You've really married the ideas of like popup shop quite literally 'cause it's popping out of a box on a bike. But you've married, popup shop with like the van lifer...

[00:08:07] Lisa: right?

[00:08:07] Dominique: Maximizing space in a mobile unit.

[00:08:10] Lisa: Yes. Yeah. It's really true. And also it's like carbon negative. I mean,

[00:08:15] Lisa: it's It's super cute. Right.

[00:08:17] Dominique: And it's cute and I've been at farmer's markets when you ride I, everyone's like, "What is that?" And that's also just like, that is a cool add to the space of sustainable fashion.

[00:08:27] Lisa: Totally. 

[00:08:28] Adam: And if you're listening to this, we'll include pictures the shownotes.

[00:08:31] Dominique: Yeah. We're not doing her justice.

[00:08:32] Adam: Totally this out.

[00:08:33] Lisa: No, it's really, it's great. I do love the idea also because my target customer is the person who can afford to buy new whenever they want to. I think that the way that we will all collaboratively reduce the impact of fashion production on nature's boundaries is by making it more convenient, normative fun for people who can afford to buy something new whenever they want to. To rely on a pre-owned source or channel, right?

[00:09:02] Lisa: So hopefully I'm slowly shifting people's mindset in my local community about how they feel about what they consume and how they consume.

[00:09:09] Adam: I love that. I'd love to just dive into this a little bit more of like what kind of conversations actually move the needle? Like how do people respond more effectively to thrifting through these conversations? 

[00:09:20] Lisa: Yeah I think, first of all, the fact that the conversation is happening usually on like a sunny afternoon at the farmer's market is helpful, right? Because I think that the customer experience is so different between you know, hopping in the car and going to Aritzia or hopping online if you need something, versus getting in the car and driving to a charity's retail space. But because those experiences are so different, part of it is just, "Here we are. Did you know that what you're buying is pre-owned? And can I tell you why I think that that's a really important thing?"

[00:09:52] Lisa: So I try to just share with a consumer just not an overwhelming number of facts, but just a couple of pieces of information that they might remember when they get home with their cashmere sweater from Vince that they bought for $40 instead of $270, whatever. Right?

[00:10:09] Dominique: On days when you've ridden your bike home and sat back and felt like, "Wow. I'm like doing something," what does that success look like to you? What has been seeing impact from Circular Thrift and being a part of the space? How has that looked?

[00:10:26] Lisa: What is really rewarding to me is that people do come up to me and say, "You know, I just didn't think about these things until I talked to you." And people come and sort of, I feel like I should have like gold stars to hand out, people can be like, "I want you to know I was gonna go shopping, but I didn't because I thought about our conversation." 

[00:10:43] Lisa: You know, I feel like be like, "Gold star. Good for you." You know? So I think that the idea of carrot versus stick, that idea is working. You know, one thing that I'm really happy about when I sit and reflect sometimes possibly drinking a glass of Souvignon blanc on my porch, right? Is people do wanna do things that are helpful. People do want to make a purpose-based choice and I do think that the world is crazy and we all carry so much already so if you can find a way to create a positive environment in which people can think about changing the way that they do things, I'm just seeing that that, potentially goes further than castigating someone or lecturing them. 

[00:11:29] Lisa: And I think too, there is so much segmentation in knowledge when you talk about sustainability. you know, obviously, our social media feeds continue to give us what we wanna hear about. All of my feed is about remanufacturing and sustainability and like, you know, remake our world, et cetera, right? But if that's not something that you're seeking, people really just don't know it all.

[00:11:53] Lisa: So I think I feel most gratified about the idea that I am potentially shifting consumer behavior just a little bit through a positive approach and like a solutions-oriented approach. 

[00:12:05] Lisa: The other thing that makes me feel really happy is that I'm trying to be very transparent about the process and I'll share in a minute, we'll go back to that pyramid that I mentioned. But, I'm trying to be very transparent about the process, even including, on my website, I'm listing the two times a month when I sort, and so it's open to anybody who wants to come. You sign up with a Google form and I will take your Starbucks or coffee order if you're gonna donate your time in that way. And people are really interested in participating and also in learning. So I find that really, people wanna be a part of something, you know? And I love that we're all sort of a part of something together. So I did wanna go back, the idea of valorizing, post-consumer textile waste. I'm gonna say that 10 more times because it's so, 

[00:12:55] Adam: It sounds very official.

[00:12:57] Dominique: Yeah.

[00:12:57] Dominique: Let's hit it home. Yeah.

[00:12:59] Adam: We're at the top of the pyramid.

[00:13:00] Lisa: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:13:00] Lisa: So resale is obvious, right? So I'll resell something either on my eBay store or offline, right? I have the swap events that we've talked about already, and they are, from a sustainability standpoint, swaps are huge. I have almost a 40% adoption rate at the different swap events that I have. So that means that if I collect and throw down a thousand units that roughly 380 of those are going home with a user who I'm, you know, I think I can safely assume is gonna use that thing instead of buying something new. 

[00:13:29] Lisa: So they're really important and valuable in that regard. Then as you get even further down on the value chain, most honestly, but percentage wise, most of what I collect, I do not keep, I do not decide to try and resell. But I am very thoughtful about what I do with it. So, I have an open channel of communication with a handful of organizations serving the local community. And I have regular drop off or pickup times with those organizations. This is also, I do want to feed the hungry and clothe the poor. You know, I care about the world overall, but my mission is sustainability first, right? 

[00:14:12] Lisa: So, if you think about it, I'm guessing, and I don't have data to back this up, but I bet it exists, right? I'm guessing that the clothing that I drop off in a, again, a very organized way, like organized by product category, sorted by size, not like some big trash bag where I'm like, "Here. You figure out if you need any of the jumbled stuff," right? So the fact that I am giving organizations, serving the community, what they need in a way that hopefully is easy for them to take it and shelve it, right.? And also that I'm trying not to give them what they don't need, I think all of the stuff that we're talking about is what does not sell on a national charity's shelf, right? And so what's good about it is I think that is a clear landfill diversion play. And I think there also is potentially an environmental justice play here too, because a lot of that same stuff is probably what gets bailed and exported to a secondhand market. And I'm guessing that it's not deemed a value upon importation either, right?

[00:15:15] Lisa: So keeping some of that stuff in circulation among people who can use it locally seems like it makes a lot of sense. And if we can all get better at figuring out what people do and don't need, I think that there's something there, right? And then another really important part of this, and this is where I think this repeatable local solution is really interesting is, so Adam, you don't know this, but well maybe I'll ask you, do you know the name of all of the lower schools in Bexley, Ohio? 

[00:15:41] Adam: I do not.

[00:15:43] Lisa: So, they are Maryland Elementary, Cassingham Elementary and Montrose Elementary. And so, picture, this is like my Flat Stanley, you know, thought on sustainable fashion, right? So the size seven fleece zip up hoodie from Maryland Elementary, it has the most value on the Spiritwear Sale day at Maryland Elementary. And that size 7 kid is gonna enjoy wearing that zip up fleece for as long as it fits them, right? But then when that fleece, that Maryland Elementary fleece gets dropped off at a local charity, if your kid doesn't go to that school, you're not likely to buy it. Like, are you looking for a Maryland elementary zip up fleece, Adam?

[00:16:29] Adam: I am not. I would never wear that. 

[00:16:32] Lisa: You would never wear that. So the value of something, something that's branded like that at a hyperlocal level, the further away it gets from its source, you know, it's diminishing right at infinitum. And so I think that, again, that's the thing that also ends up landfill or incinerated in another country because then nobody wants your Maryland Elementary size 7 zip-up fleece. So I think that's another really important component. Think about all of the neighborhoods that have, you know, elementary schools with branded Spiritwear. If we can figure out how to even just focus on that, again, thinking about not boiling the ocean, just figure out how to keep all of those things in circulation for much longer, that has an impact too. Now granted, you're not gonna make as many Spiritwear sales, but I think there's maybe there are other ways to compensate for that.

[00:17:18] Adam: Well, and I love the message that you have there as well of like, "Hey, maybe there's a chance for those spirit sales to resell items from people's past. "

[00:17:25] Lisa: To operationalize it. I would like to operationalize that like across the country. That's what I think could be awesome.

[00:17:30] Adam: I love that. And I also love the kind of other nugget of wisdom that you had when describing the pyramid of if you are looking to donate things to local charities or other places, to actually contact them and understand what their needs are and then have a little bit of mindfulness on how you're donating it to them so it's very easy for them to get that into the right hands.

[00:17:50] Lisa: Right. Right.

[00:17:52] Dominique: I also just love the examples you've given around like these use cases, like we can all relate the idea of like school Spiritwear, halloween. Some of these like really specific scenarios where I think it can feel really hard to imagine like coordinating thrifting or going to a place that we're usually familiar with coming into having to sort through to get what we need. 

[00:18:13] Dominique: I think it's awesome how much you've built your model around your community. Because as much as it's your community and it feels hyperlocal to this scenario, I think this is every community. 

[00:18:25] Dominique: So my question around that is, you know, you come to this from a lot of like big fashion experience and you have so much context, the world of textiles and I know you're great as a communicator. I know you're great in terms of like understanding the system you're a part of. I know that you're

[00:18:43] Lisa: Listeners, I am actually pretty great.

[00:18:44] Dominique: Yeah. She's fantastic. 

[00:18:45] Adam: Well, we're not just big fans of Lisa because she's great and we know it. It's, she's naturally great. 

[00:18:50] Dominique: But I also know that you're innovative and you've built this model and it's unique and I'm gonna keep going and telling you how great you are. 

[00:18:56] Dominique: But I'm also curious when you think about why you were able to have this success and why you've been able to see this impact so far. I'm curious for someone who's listening, for example, thinking about their experience working in fashion potentially and wanting to be a part of the movement in their community, because what you're saying also happens in their town. 

[00:19:16] Dominique: How do you think about what's made you successful?

[00:19:19] Lisa: Okay, so what has made me successful is I think that I am uniquely qualified because of the fact that I have extensive product and supply chain and maybe even some, you know, customer service experience. 

[00:19:37] Lisa: And I'm excited to apply it in this way because I think that there are so many roadblocks if you don't have the ability to hold all these different ideas and potential solutions kind of, in suspension, waiting for something to come to fix one problem, fix another problem, fix another problem.

[00:20:00] Lisa: It is a really complicated problem. The impact of fashion on the environment is just complicated and what happens to all of our stuff when we're done using it. It just is, it's complicated. So I think that's where I'm applying a unique set of experiences to this. 

[00:20:16] Lisa: There are other people out there and I want you to come and find me and let's all do it together. Like there are other people that have this complex set of, you know, that also experienced the same industry that I have. And so I think there is a talent pool that we need to continue to do this work.

[00:20:31] Dominique: If someone is feeling like they can't tell if they're that person or not, what are some maybe like characteristics or features of someone into a be successful in like carrying on the growth thrift model in another community?

[00:20:44] Lisa: Okay. 

[00:20:45] Lisa: Well, if somebody wants to carry on Circular Thrifts model in another community, that's a horse of a different color and I would love to talk about that in just a second, too.

[00:20:54] Dominique: Okay, yeah. 

[00:20:54] Lisa: But to people who are in supply chain or in the fashion industry, I think the people that are able to go from like a macro to a micro level thinking about problems and solutions, this world needs them so much, right? It's just that I think that new markets are gonna be created. The ROI, it may take a minute to reveal itself, right? Is what I would say to those people. But I think it's there, you know, I think there is gonna be a way for people to make money doing the crazy things that I'm doing.

[00:21:26] Adam: I love it. Well, can we dive in for as well to help people replicate this model? 

[00:21:30] Lisa: basically I am writing a roadmap that I will hand to maybe a 20 years younger version of Lisa Goldsand, who just is connected in her community, his or her, their community, and wants to have maybe a side hustle that is purpose-driven. 

[00:21:49] Lisa: So I think that I can guide someone to figure out how to identify their network, figure out how to set up their collection channels, figure out who to partner with to have the right events and time the events the right way, figure out how to build that donation recipient network, right? 

[00:22:09] Lisa: Like I've kind of operationalized the process so that I think I could guide someone pretty easily in how to set up this process in their own ecosystem. 

[00:22:21] Lisa: What they need is the connections. It's a lot of work. I'm not gonna say it's not all work, but they need the connections but I can kind of point them in the right direction about what to do. 

[00:22:29] Lisa: And then one of the things that I don't know that I've talked enough about today is part of that shifting consumer behavior is educational outreach, right? 

[00:22:39] Lisa: So my thought would be, I will still be available to do a lot of that educational outreach, maybe even directly with other communities that decide to take on this model. 

[00:22:49] Adam: I love that. 

[00:22:49] Lisa: Dominique, do you have a final question for our fabulous guest here? 

[00:22:53] Dominique: I think it's really helpful and I'm just, it's just really awesome to hear I think the macro to micro position that you've made in sustainable fashion, because I think because climate change at large needs that, whether it's like finding out that your niche is fashion versus other battles to fight when it comes to climate change. But also figuring out like what in the ecosystem can we actually be doing about it? 

[00:23:15] Dominique: If you were to leave with like one piece of advice for someone when thinking about, you know, "Okay, consume less." Great. We got that as an idea for how we need to be behaving to move fashion towards a sustainable model. But what's some piece of advice you'd wanna leave someone with when they maybe feel overwhelmed by just the idea that they don't have a place in the way that fashion is going and just consuming less doesn't feel like enough or doesn't feel like what they're able to do? 

[00:23:45] Lisa: I would say take it easy on yourself and if you can commit to do one or two things differently every day, It does make a difference. If everyone thinks that way, it really does make a difference. So I think give yourself some grace and just keep going.

[00:24:02] Adam: I really love to how you dove into the whole pyramid of what you can do at different levels and scoping that out 'cause I think that gave a lot of insight of like, here's different ways you can tackle this and show up to be part of this change. 

[00:24:13] Lisa: Well, this was super fun. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

[00:24:18] Adam: Thanks for joining us today.

[00:24:19] Dominique: And then as usual, we always ask how people can connect with you or support you in the work that you do.

[00:24:24] Lisa: You visit my website, circularthrift.org and come and join me at an event.

[00:24:30] Adam: Woohoo. We'll be there. We'll be at all your events from now on. You can't get rid of us.

[00:24:35] Dominique: Alright, as always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We're here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:24:50] Adam: If you know a Green champion, that should be our next guest, email us at thegreenchampions@gmail.com. You can find our shownotes at thegreenchampions.com, along with a nice picture of Lisa's bike. And a big thanks to Zayn Dweik for our music. Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We'll dig into another sustainability success story in our next episode. 

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