Kevin Butt - Three Decades of Driving Sustainability at Toyota

[00:00:00] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:13] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:20] Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and have done something about it.

[00:00:29] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:37] Dominique: Today, Adam and I are so excited to be joined by Kevin Butt. Kevin is the Regional Environmental Sustainability director at Toyota. What does that mean? Kevin's responsible for the development of environmental sustainability programs in addition to regulatory and legislative development for all of Toyota's North American operations.

[00:00:57] Dominique: And before you're like, "Wow, Kevin sounds really cool," Kevin is not only a sustainability advocate within the automotive manufacturing space, but he also serves on several boards, and those include the National Wildlife Habitat Council, Kentucky Fish and Wildlife Foundation, the World Wildlife Fund National Council, North American Great Plains Advisory Board, and if those all weren't great enough, he's also on the Yellowstone Park Foundation Board. 

[00:01:23] Dominique: Today, we'll approach sustainability from the automotive lens with touch points on manufacturing, international supply chains, and these wonderful boards that Kevin serves on.

[00:01:33] Dominique: Thanks for joining us today, Kevin.

[00:01:34] Kevin: It's my pleasure to be here.

[00:01:35] Dominique: Was that a good enough description of all the things you do?

[00:01:38] Kevin: That's, that was way too much, but yeah, it's, it's, a lot.

[00:01:42] Dominique: It's a lot. Well, I guess my first question is how do you do all that? 

[00:01:44] Kevin: Well, you know, it's, if you have the passion right, you find time, right? Sometimes it's hard to, you know, I've got a day job, right? But I'm very fortunate. I work for a company that allows me to work in these other spaces, which are important. Because it's not just about what we do in the manufacturing world, it's how we interact with others, share our know-how, share finance when necessary and appropriate and actually get things done that are outside just manufacturing.

[00:02:09] Dominique: Why do you care about these things? 

[00:02:10] Dominique: Where did the love for the environment sustainability come for you? 

[00:02:14] Kevin: I don't wanna get into the weeds on this, but my father was a United Methodist minister, and the property that he had where the church was, it was 31 acres and a lot of that was woods. And so, from the time I was in fifth grade all the way up through high school, I spent a lot of time in the woods and just enjoyed nature.

[00:02:29] Kevin: The older I got, I realized that we really don't treat them that well, you know, as a whole. And so I said, "There's something that should be done about this," And I didn't know what that was, you know? And I didn't know for sure what I was gonna do in college. And when I went to school, I decided that maybe I was gonna be a forest ranger, to work in that space. That really just didn't work out because the federal government kinda shut down a lot of that work. So then I said, "All right, I've gotta do something in this space."

[00:02:56] Kevin: It didn't work out right away, you know. 

[00:02:58] Kevin: I ended up going to the University of Kentucky for a job where I was a research scientist and doing things that were completely opposite of what I was intending. We were researching coal and coal liquefaction, gasification, oil shale retorting, and at that time we were trying to make oil outta anything ahead of carbon ring.

[00:03:15] Kevin: And when I was doing this, the whole time it was like, "Wait a minute. There's waste products that we're generating and there's impacts that we're causing doing this." So I began trying to research how do we fix that? Let's not just get the product we want, let's look at this holistically. 

[00:03:32] Kevin: As a result of that, I began doing research in acid rain research and things of that nature and the academic world. Love them, gotta have 'em. It wasn't for me. I was more of, I wanna get my hands in it. I don't wanna write papers and just get grant money and fund grad students, which all is good.

[00:03:52] Kevin: Don't take that the wrong way. But it wasn't me.

[00:03:54] Dominique: Mm-Hmm.

[00:03:55] Kevin: So I went really to the dark side from there. 

[00:03:58] Adam: The dark side? 

[00:03:58] Kevin: I did, I went to work for a steel mill. I wanted to see what that big world was like, and how people were dealing with that.

[00:04:06] Dominique: Was that your intention of going there? Was you knew you wanted to see the other side, or were you just simply curious how it all worked?

[00:04:12] Kevin: I was curious as, what are they doing, right? Because they always had the bad name. All this industry's bad, corporation's bad, you know? And I said, "Really? They all can't be bad." But steel mill, by nature of what it does, it's a difficult industry. So I learned a lot in that space and I learned that everybody wasn't trying to kill the world. We were trying to do what was right. 

[00:04:34] Kevin: We had great programs, but it was still just tough. You're using a lot of energy, you're making steel from coal and iron ore, and that's a process.

[00:04:44] Kevin: But during that time, I was recruited by Toyota, to come and start their first corporate environmental group in North America. And I said, "All right, that sounds good." So I did. And so I've been now at Toyota for 32 years.

[00:04:58] Dominique: Wow. What were you doing to make them say, "We want Kevin to do that"?

[00:05:02] Kevin: That's a good story too.

[00:05:04] Kevin: I was actually working on a piece of legislation in Frankfort, Kentucky, the Capitol, trying to get some tax breaks for some of the work we were doing for pollution control, equipment installation and Toyota was there. And Toyota was in the room listening to a lot of this hearing and they were kind of interfering with my plan. They had a lot of money and we didn't in the steel mill, right? 

[00:05:26] Kevin: So I just went over and talked to 'em at the break and said, "Guys, maybe you could be a little more neutral on this subject, you know? And kinda help us out on this side so that we can do some really good things with this." a couple weeks later, I got a phone call.

[00:05:39] Dominique: And you were sure you wanted it?

[00:05:40] Kevin: No. At that time I wasn't sure. So I asked a lot of questions and we, we really didn't come to an agreement. So the job, I turned it down and the agreement was on just basic philosophies. I was a lot younger and I was full of this vim and vigor and I had this idealistic viewpoint of what I wanted to do. And this was this Japanese company that was great in their manufacturing processes, but was new to North America in a lot of ways, even though they've been selling cars here forever. Eight months later I got another call and we had a long conversation and here I am. 

[00:06:11] Adam: 32 years. One, that's really cool to be with an organization for a long period of time, and a lot of change has happened in the last 30 years. What would you say are like some of the big ways that you've seen your work evolve over that time?

[00:06:26] Kevin: It's been really kind of an incredible journey, to be quite frank. Toyota's always been a good steward towards environment. I mean, it goes again, it's a very operational way of doing business. They don't want any waste. You know, if you create waste, you're creating an impact to the product. Uh, and they're always about, "Let's fix problems now. Let's not continue to make a problem and ignore it until we finally have to get to it. "They stop, we do it now, let's fix this. 

[00:06:52] Kevin: And the same thing was with any issue we had in the environmental space, right? If we saw something coming or how we were designing something, it was really kind of fascinating that we would all sit down and quickly resolve that issue and as opposed to, "Well, we'll work on that later. It's just an environmental issue." It was always that way and to me that was really good as it evolved over time. My first job was, just make sure we're in compliance and do better in that, and initiate programs that make us better all around because we don't want to even worry about a permit limit. Let's make sure we're making it better. Which was fun, to get that latitude and we did a lot of great things. But over time, to be quite honest, that's boring. That's the expectation. We should be hitting our permits and doing it better and not impacting the neighborhood in which we do business. 

[00:07:42] Kevin: So that to me was, "Alright, we do that. Now, what are we gonna do?" And so then, I guess it was maybe 15, 20 years ago now, I started working in the sustainability space before anybody really was thinking about it so much. It was out there but, you know, I was trying to figure out how we could look into the future. What would we be if we were really a company that provided a product that people wanted, but it also provided it in a way that was more sustainable. 

[00:08:12] Kevin: It's hard to say that when you're building a car, right? Because we all know the impacts of cars. We all know where we're going with electrification, which is a whole nother subject and how fast we're doing it and the impacts we're creating because of that. That's another subject. 

[00:08:25] Kevin: But, so I really just wanted to move out into the community as well. How can we as Toyota, very large car company, share our expertise, share our knowledge on how we can, as a society, do better? And can we influence that? Can we collaborate? I was never a person who, "It was Toyota and it's ours and I'm gonna keep it." It's, "What did we learn and how can I share that?" So to me that was very important and that's how we started moving outside of that. And I was working in the engineering department at the time and it was always a little bit of angst there because I was breaking the rules of how, you know, you think about return on investment, how do you think about those types of projects that engineers work on?

[00:09:10] Kevin: It's kind of black and white. We all want engineers that when they build our bridges, it is black and white. They make it very safe. They make it safe every time. But let's think outside that a little bit. So I was told to no longer be in engineering and to create my own department.

[00:09:27] Kevin: And what a godsend to have the ability to kind of write your job description and then recruit the people that you want to be able to start making those changes. And so that's a huge transformation from where I started to where I am now.

[00:09:42] Adam: Oh, that's fantastic. And I'm excited to dive more into the work at Toyota in our next episode. 

[00:09:47] Adam: But in the work that you do there, there's kind of four main pillars of sustainability that you look at, right? I've seen carbon materials, water, biodiversity. Can you just give us a quick, high level overview of why those are important for the work that you're doing?

[00:10:01] Kevin: Sure. You know, when we talk about sustainability, you can't separate a lot of those. We give them titles. But when you talk about climate, you're talking about carbon. You're talking about water and biodiversity, right? I mean, those three, you're hard to separate them from creating solutions and one impacts the other, right?

[00:10:19] Kevin: And then you have the materials that has chemistry involved in it. Has toxins or not. If you choose to do it right, they all impact that. The toxins will impact the water ground. But in order to create targets, you can't solve all of it right away. So you have to break them down into individual areas such as carbon, water, materials, and biodiversity.

[00:10:39] Kevin: So let's attack those, but recognize that when we do something in one space, whether it's biodiversity, you might be impacting some of these other areas. Which is what we often lose sight of, I think. Such as, now I'll just give you a quick example. Right now we're into this electrification of automobiles. And we're rapidly moving towards that happening.

[00:11:01] Kevin: I'm all for that. It makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't make sense if we don't take into account all those unintended consequences that we're creating as we do that. All the mining, all the transportation of minerals across the globe to make a battery, which is then shipped back across the globe. And then what are you gonna do with that battery to end of its useful life?

[00:11:24] Kevin: Can you recover those minerals? And can we create a circular economy in that space? Where are we charging those cars when we own them? Are you getting green energy to do that if you're just transferring molecules from one space to the other? I'm not sure that's the best way to go.

[00:11:40] Kevin: I think it's all solvable over time, but we have to, to my point, we have to take into account when we go to attack one issue, what are the ramifications across the other areas? And to me that's sustainability. That's creating a solution that doesn't cause another problem.

[00:11:57] Dominique: I think that's really, really interesting and I think that showcases how much you think like 10 steps ahead. Like you're almost thinking about the sustainability report that will be written like 10 years later around like, "Oh, great, now we're in a different problem," and we just can't jump on the new solution that solves today. But think about the ramifications of like, are we able to maintain that new stream of supply chain needs and material usage and demand on the environment. I think that just speaks a lot to how much perspective you have.

[00:12:28] Kevin: Yeah, I think, they're, I'm not unique to this. I talk to a lot of people that are, you know, we have this conversation. And one of the groups that I work with that fortunately we didn't talk about in my introduction, but I also chair the suppliers partnership for the environment.

[00:12:42] Kevin: And that group is a lot of the OEMs in our tier one, tier two suppliers that gather on a quarterly basis and talk across the automotive sector enterprise. How can we as a automotive sector solve these problems together? So that we're not each inventing the wheel and trying to solve in our own pillar for some advantage. We gather and we talk about that.

[00:13:06] Dominique: Is that a difficult collaboration to create? I mean, it just feels so unique from the outside to understand how these big industry players also have to navigate collaborating and it's important. But was that hard to build that community and relationship?

[00:13:21] Kevin: You know, that group continues to grow dramatically, which is very exciting. 

[00:13:27] Kevin: So we have a lot of work groups that people gather, not just quarterly, but in between that and try to solve some of these problems. And we've done a great job. You know, one of the things that was really amazing to me when I first started talking about this with them was common definitions. How do we work together if we define things differently?

[00:13:45] Kevin: If I asked you what carbon neutrality means to you, I would get an answer, I'm sure it would be brilliant. I turn over here to Adam and go, "Adam, what do you think about carbon neutrality?" And he tells me something a bit different. And then I have a different perspective. That's hard, to be able then to solve an issue when we can't even define it the same way, let alone measure it the same way.

[00:14:05] Dominique: Also really important to clarify that before you're getting in conversations and you're wondering why you're going in circles, but it's because your definitions are different.

[00:14:13] Kevin: Absolutely.

[00:14:14] Dominique: And I feel like that must speak to one, just like your wisdom, but two, I think you have a lot of experience in international, like diverse groups. Do you think that has taught you a lot about taking those pauses and defining the words we're using and what they mean? 

[00:14:29] Kevin: Absolutely. I work for an international company. And defining just between myself and my Japanese counterparts is often entertaining, right? And coming to the same consensus of what we're talking about. So yeah, it kind of started there for sure. But the importance of that, it can't be understated, right? 

[00:14:47] Kevin: So you start with definitions, then you can talk about measurements and the units of measure. And so understanding, "Okay, that's what you meant? Oh, no, I'm sorry, I did it this way. You know, and that calculation was a little bit different." And so now we're, you know, we've issued a number of guidance documents now that are across the industry so that people are on the same page.

[00:15:07] Adam: Well, and another piece of that too is having common ground of the areas that you're talking on. And I've heard you mention that carbon gets a lot of attention, and elements like water and biodiversity do not. 

[00:15:19] Adam: Could you share a little bit about why issues around water and biodiversity is so important?

[00:15:24] Kevin: Yeah. 

[00:15:24] Kevin: Like I said earlier, I mean, you know, you can't hardly disconnect them in a lot of ways, right? I think water is such underestimated in its importance and urgency for us to do something about it. I believe water is the biggest issue we're gonna face in my lifetime, both in volume and quality.

[00:15:42] Kevin: And some people are gonna get more volume than they ever thought they were gonna get. Right? We see a lot more floods in the Northeast than we have in the past. And I don't wanna get into that whole thing, but the fact of the matter is we're using water at such a rapid pace. A lot of it's in agriculture as well. We gotta feed a lot of people in this country and in the world. And we're draining our aquifers. We all know the stories about Colorado River and Lake Mead and all the horror stories that are out there. That to me is something we really need to address. 

[00:16:13] Kevin: I'll give you an example. We're working on a project in Mexicali, right across the border. It's the Colorado River that's runs through there and, you know, they've drained that whole delta down there to use for agriculture. And one cannot blame them. They need food as well, and they need cash crops. And uh, but what we're working on with the Nature Conservancy with them is teaching them, wait a minute, why are you growing alfalfa in an area that it's a crop that's so demanding of water? Why don't you grow barley? Less demanding, more profit. 

[00:16:50] Dominique: So we're converting some of these farming families into this space and we're diverting the water that we're saving from that back into the Hardy River, which then gets back into the delta. And we've created as a result of that, and the volume of water there is, you know, you can see the bird species coming back. You can see the floor and fauna changing in the area that's receiving that water. Which to me is that's what we need to do. I love the way you think about these problems and the solutions you get excited about. I think they're just so well grounded and like a big picture approach. 

[00:17:23] Dominique: How does that guide your thinking? Like what guides when Kevin is looking at a problem and identifying the best avenue to move forward, or where to put funding or effort or initiative, like how do you think about what matters most and what deserves attention and effort?

[00:17:40] Kevin: Well, first of all, I'd like to work with facts, right? I don't like to work with 'he said she said', let's get the data. Let's validate the issue and make sure that one, we're defining it the same, going back to that whole metrics thing and, and that we're clear that the science is sound as to where we're at and with the problem.

[00:18:01] Kevin: And then I like to look at areas that we can involve a number of different people, we can collaborate. Sustainability is not sustainability if you walk in, you fix a problem and then you walk out and nobody cares anymore. You gotta get the people invested in that solution and then to maintain it.

[00:18:21] Kevin: To me that's sustainability. You know? It's gotta stay. 

[00:18:24] Kevin: I wanna make sure that when we're done, we have done what we said we were gonna do and it's gonna last.

[00:18:30] Dominique: But you've been hands on with a lot of interesting organizations that I named right there in the beginning of World Wildlife Fund, Yellowstone Park. 

[00:18:37] Dominique: Can you share why you've gotten involved with those organizations? And why it's been a big value for you to have all those connections and responsibilities are not easy, I'm sure to have on your calendar in addition to Toyota's work.

[00:18:53] Kevin: Again, I think, you know, Toyota's a big company. We're a large corporation. Transportation has a big impact on our climate and our world. I don't know if we can do without it quite yet. So we've got to get, as a result, I feel, as a company, we're responsible then to make countermeasures. 

[00:19:11] Kevin: You know, we as a company said, we believe in climate change and we're part of the problem, and we need to help solve those issues.

[00:19:17] Kevin: We can do that through some of our products, right? We're electrifying, we're doing all those things. But to me, it's some of this other space that doesn't get the attention that is necessary. And to be quite frank, when you get a, Toyota name, you come in, you get a little more attention in a lot of respects. 

[00:19:35] Kevin: let's talk about Yellowstone, right? We first got involved there years and years ago. The park is kinda remote if you've never been there, it's out there. So we donated some of our first Prius vehicles to the park rangers.

[00:19:49] Dominique: Oh really? 

[00:19:49] Kevin: Yeah. So that they could drive fuel efficiently in the park, create less emissions in the park. So

[00:19:56] Dominique: I love the idea of a ranger hopping into a Prius. I just love that.

[00:19:59] Kevin: Right? You know, to be quite honest, that first Prius wasn't that cute of a vehicle. So, um, but that worked out pretty well and it was very helpful. And then as a result, I was asked, well, we actually had one of the guys that works in my group now helped design the new visitor center at Old Faithful with, you know, all the sustainability activities in mind. 

[00:20:20] Dominique: What are some examples of that?

[00:20:22] Kevin: Uh, well it was, you know, the types of windows, the insulation, the materials that were used in that. So that was, that was good. So then, later on I was asked the question. 

[00:20:34] Kevin: Uh, if you haven't been there, you all need to go. Lamar, Buffalo Ranch, is probably one of the coolest spots on earth. You know, you got wolves, you've got bears and buffalo. And this site was actually built by the US Calvary, uh, at the turn of the century where they started, when we realized that we had slaughtered almost all the buffalo. And so they started gathering what Buffalo they could find and brought 'em to the Lamar Buffalo Ranch to preserve and, you know, hopefully increase the herd sizes. But it's out in the middle of nowhere and no power, off the grid. It's a park ranger station too, and they were using propane, and diesel to power it.

[00:21:16] Kevin: And I was asked the question. Hey, you think we could do something different out there to, and this is where I always get in trouble, but I said, "Oh, sure. Sure we can." And at the time we had been, you know, the Prius hybrid batteries were out, and the Camry hybrid batteries were out. So I said, you know, I really wanted to know how I could reuse those batteries. And so I wanted to make a battery storage system. So it's a little bit selfish. I wanted to experiment with these used Camry hybrid batteries, put 'em on site, put a little solar field out there. Which by the way, putting a solar field in a national park is not an easy thing to do. Um, but we did, and we created a system that we could power that without diesel and without propane using used Camry hybrid batteries.

[00:22:05] Kevin: So it was kind of the start of, you know, how do we repurpose these batteries and work with them that way.

[00:22:10] Dominique: How long ago did you start getting involved with that group in particular?

[00:22:14] Kevin: Oh wow. I'm gonna guess 10 years. Yeah. Somewhere in that range.

[00:22:18] Kevin: Favorite national park? Boy, there's so many, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, just because of my personal.

[00:22:23] Dominique: Connection?

[00:22:24] Kevin: Connections there. Yeah. Great people.

[00:22:26] Dominique: I picture you walking through the park and everyone's like, "Hi, Kevin."

[00:22:29] Kevin: Well, I know a lot of people there. Yeah. You know what's another great thing was, you know, three board meetings a year at the park.

[00:22:35] Dominique: Oh, darn.

[00:22:38] Kevin: That's tough gig. Somebody's gotta do it. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:22:41] Dominique: That's really cool. 

[00:22:42] Adam: I'm just really curious about this. 'Cause like, I saw this pollination project, very huge. I'm curious like, how'd that come about and what was that helping to achieve?

[00:22:50] Kevin: You know that, again, we have concerns about biodiversity, right? It's one of our focus areas. And when we thought about how do we do something about that, we own property. We calculated up, and Toyota owns about 26,000 acres in North America. Manufacturing office space, so forth, and we decided, you know what? Let's offset that acreage that we have by creating 26,000 acres of new pollinator space. Using lands that we have on our property, but then cooperating with a group called Pollinator Partnership and a National Environmental Education Foundation where we could use them also to help us find the right spaces for that.

[00:23:34] Kevin: That's really just kind of the beginning. This year we ought to hit that number. And then we'll begin the process of thinking what the next target is. 

[00:23:43] Dominique: That's a lot of land.

[00:23:44] Kevin: It is, and you know, there are a lot of other companies that have bigger spaces. And I'm very proud of what people are doing. So we're learning from them too, right? Of how they're putting a lot of acres in conservation easements, and in continuing to do the right thing. So there needs to be more of that. 

[00:24:00] Adam: I just, I love that thinking of like, "Hey, how is our space that we have impacting the environment and how can we offset that?" Do you know how much impact that actually has for the pollinator spaces that you've built?

[00:24:12] Dominique: the measurement of that is also very interesting 'cause we talked about that as we started this. What are the metrics by which we will use to measure? And so we're doing species validation. How many species are in the area? Are they proliferating?

[00:24:25] Kevin: And is there a species in the area that we're doing this that is under stress? And can we put specific plants in that would attract that species and allow that species to thrive more? So yeah, we're trying to evaluate each of the sites in a little different way, right? We do an initial assessment and then put the right plants in there that'll help that.

[00:24:46] Dominique: I think there's something really interesting about the way you like navigate your influence. I just think about like this podcast and what we're really seeking to unpack with each guest is like everybody kind of brings something really interesting to the role that they serve and it's really cool, I think, to build this tapestry of different sustainability leaders leaning on their skills and talents to create impact in their space.

[00:25:10] Dominique: And I just think it's so easy when you first meet you to even feel that you just have a very strong sense of like influence. And I think you shared that too in your story of like starting out and working in the steel mill and working in legislation, for Toyota to take notice of you. And I think it sounds like that's been a big passion of yours is not only understanding the problem, but influencing what we're doing to change it. 

[00:25:33] Dominique: And I'm just curious how you think about, what about you is kind of the magic there? 

[00:25:37] Dominique: Like what have you crafted or honed in on in the last 30 years that you think other people could learn from in terms of influencing decisions and leveraging the seat you sit in to make a difference in that way?

[00:25:51] Kevin: I appreciate that. I don't know if I'm a big influencer, but what I think over time is if you can't listen, you can't influence. If you think you know everything, walking into the room, then you're not willing to not talk for a period of time until asked or till you have something really valuable to say. I think that's a big piece of trying to move the needle a little bit. You've gotta understand what's going on, what's in somebody's mind, what are they thinking, what are their issues?

[00:26:21] Kevin: I've been in so many meetings when somebody comes in, they sit down, and you know, they start telling you the way it is. And it was a meeting to have discussion. You know, that doesn't make progress. So I'd like to think that there's compassion that you need to have for other people's issues, concerns, what they consider valuable and you can't downplay that. It is what it is. 

[00:26:42] Kevin: But how do you let their passion fit into what, you know, the program that you're trying to establish? Find that niche for them and not isolate them because of that opinion. So to me that's really important. And not to get too philosophical here, but we've lost a lot of our humanity in this world and our humanity is the ability to communicate and listen to people.

[00:27:04] Kevin: Let them understand that you care about what they believe. And I'm not playing a game either. I do care what they think. I may not agree with it. But I'm not always right either. So that's the other piece. You can't think that you know everything. If you did, then why have the conversation?

[00:27:21] Dominique: That's good advice, professionally and in life.

[00:27:27] Adam: we're so glad that you were able to join us today, and it's been fun kind of walking through this journey of how you got into sustainability. Even your experience working at a steel mill and like seeing boots on the ground of like what actually was going on. And then how that translated to developing a sustainability initiative at Toyota and actually taking that forward. And then all these really cool projects that you do all around with different parks and different services. So thanks for sharing that. How can people support the work that you're doing and be advocates in this space? 

[00:27:59] Kevin: You know, I think I've often said that I believe that 7 out of 10 people, if they were educated in the environmental issue that was in front of them, and they had two ways they could deal with that. One was the more sustainable way, and one was keep your head down and just do what you do. I believe 7 out of 10 would make the right decision, right? 

[00:28:19] Kevin: There's those that still don't care. They don't believe it affects them. It's not their day, not their concern. So, I go back to let's keep the communication going. Let's have rational discussion, and I think we can move this needle. I think we can do what's right. Let's just do it in a way that it makes common sense.

[00:28:38] Adam: Thanks.

[00:28:38] Dominique: This was such a treat. Thanks, Kevin.

[00:28:40] Kevin: Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:28:42] Dominique: As always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We are here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:28:55] Adam: You can find our episodes at thegreenchampions.com. If you wanna stay in the loop, give us a review and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. If you have questions about climate change or sustainability, you can reach us on our website at thegreenchampions.com.

[00:29:08] Adam: Our music is by Zayn Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions, and we'll dig into another sustainability success story in our next episode. 

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