John McNamara - Bringing the Energy Back to the Green Team

[00:00:10] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:15] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:23] Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and did something about it.

[00:00:33] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:41] Dominique: So whether you're walking through your neighborhood today, maybe you're just relaxing at home or maybe you're on a run, today, Adam and I are joined by the John McNamara. I am so jazzed about our guest today. 

[00:00:56] Dominique: John is the Chief Operations Officer at the Appalachian Renewable Power. They are providing solar since 2008, and today we're really talking about sustainability as it relates to energy, power, and renewables. John probably won't admit it on the record, but he's a friend of mine and he describes himself as someone who has a passion for solving wicked problems. Yeah. If you're probably thinking John's cool already. Yeah, get ready. John is part of a team that also not only is advancing the solar industry, but is exploring ways to lower the footprint of solar and bring it to new places. 

[00:01:32] Dominique: John, our listeners are very lucky to hear voice, your jokes and your positive outlook on the world. Thanks for being here as one of our green champions. Can't wait to get into who you are and what you've managed to do.

[00:01:43] John: Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm super excited for the conversation.

[00:01:48] Dominique: Awesome. Okay, well. Kick us off. Tell us what it is that you do in the world of sustainability.

[00:01:53] John: Yeah, absolutely. So I pinch myself every day at the opportunity that I have. First and foremost, I get to be a dad. I get to see somebody grow up in a tough environment. You know, someone once said to me as they were concerned about raising kids in the environmental crisis that we have, "Don't ever apologize for raising dragon slayers in a time of dragons." And so it's so much fun to work with him, to show him some of the impacts that our choices make and some of the ways that we can fix some of these challenges that are out there.

[00:02:29] John: So that, that's first and foremost who I get to be. And then, you know, I get up after that, I have a cup of coffee and I get to go run operations for a scrappy group of solar installers out of southeast Ohio. Appalachian Renewable Power, ARP Solar as some may call us, is a wonderful organization of values based organization that I had the opportunity to join in 2022 as their chief operations officer.

[00:02:56] John: We were really going through kind of a transition moving from the solar coaster of 2008 to 2022. There's a lot of variation, a lot of chasing those folks who were ready to make that transition into solar. Really the last couple of years, we've seen the shift moving in the momentum moving in solar and so our organization really needed to shift into that second phase of who we are. And so that's what I came on to really bring more process and responsibility into the roles and help us scale what we're doing because it's, it's a pretty exciting time to be at ARP Solar. We just installed the first floating solar in Ohio. So if you have the opportunity to go up to the Delco Water treatment plant, we put 1.3 megawatts of floating solar out on the water, which is 130 homes worth of electricity for the year. And if that doesn't get you excited, it's actually...

[00:03:56] Adam: Wait, how big is that? Like if you were to look at the lake, what does that actually look like?

[00:04:00] John: It is three acres. Uh, so it is three sections and we'll get you a clip. We'll get you a picture of it here, and we can cut that picture in there. It's three acres of solar floating out on the water. It takes about 30% of the electrical load off the water treatment plant. So you can imagine how much electricity that they're using up there at Delco. I'll say, what an incredible partner they've been in this opportunity as well. And what a dream installation it is. 

[00:04:26] John: So when you actually come onto the project site, there's a big berm. It's about a 40 or 50 foot hill that you have to climb to get up to the reservoir. And you come up over the top and you see three acres of floating solar on the water. And there is no one on the team who doesn't giggle every time we get there. It is, it's been an absolute delight. It's been so much fun. It's been fun to have a project where we have the company jet ski out there and

[00:04:56] Dominique: What sentence, the company jet ski.

[00:04:58] John: The company jet ski is out there to help us, you know, shuttle folks back and forth across to the floating solar. But it's been amazing to work on projects like that, to be tied into a lot of opportunities around nonprofits as well. You know, I'm sure we will talk about the Inflation Reduction Act and kind of how that's accelerated our transition in renewable energy. There's a lot of opportunity in solar, a lot of excitement in solar, so I get to do that during the day with a great group of folks.

[00:05:26] John: And then at night, I'm a part of the Board of Green Columbus, which is a sustainability focused nonprofit in Central Ohio. And I get to team up with those great people. So it's a very lucky place that I find myself in. I'm very grateful for all the people who've helped me get to this point and just excited for what we can do because there, there is a lot that we can do. There's a lot of pessimism out there, and there's a lot of moments where you, you know, you get a little bit panicked about what's going on. You read a lot headlines out there. And going out and doing action is what gives me a lot of energy and really, really fulfilling.

[00:06:00] Adam: How did you get started in this track of sustainability?

[00:06:04] John: Yeah, I, it's a question that I ask myself pretty often, you know. You wake up and you go, "Okay, I woke up from that dream where I was working with a solar company and a sustainability nonprofit," and you go, "Wait. It wasn't a dream, was it?" 

[00:06:21] John: Um, I'll say there are hundreds of people that I would express my thanks to. My brother would probably be the first one. My youngest brother, Dom, who you actually met last night, was a chief technology officer for a company out in California. And he taught me that at that executive level, that you can still lead with your values. Taught me that you can still take care of people, that you can still look for equitable outcomes for people in that kind of a role. And taught me that that role was attainable for someone coming from our background. 

[00:07:01] Adam: What do you mean by 'our background'?

[00:07:03] John: Just normal folks, you know? We, we're, we're living in a gilded age right now where there's so much income disparity. And transitioning to leadership roles like that, there are lots of times that, you know, you're told you don't have the pedigree for that. That you are not a Harvard alum. I got kicked out of two colleges and one of them was a community college.

[00:07:30] Dominique: I love this added, uh, dynamic to your background.

[00:07:33] John: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. No, it's a college for the community. And they were 

[00:07:37] Dominique: Was it trying to create change?

[00:07:39] John: No, it was for not going to school enough. At 18 years old, I was much more focused, you know, on the short term reward of working. I would get a paycheck every two weeks and man, I could do some fun stuff with that and investing the time in my education that that wasn't really the vibe I was going for.

[00:07:56] Dominique: Less instant gratification with the education.

[00:07:58] John: It is. It is, absolutely. And so I walked a wandered path and to that point about pedigree as well. You know, it was 14 years later before I got my undergrad. You would think as you look in the mirror, "I'm not the person who's lined up for that." And yet you start meeting folks who challenge you to do more. You know, I had an incredible opportunity to mentor under the CEO of Nationwide. And it was more about learning the humanity of that person than it was the role and the responsibilities. You know, big shout out to Kirt Walker for spending the time and spending the conversation and. 

[00:08:36] John: And I'll say one of the big pushes into this realm, you know, I was seeing it kind of solidify as a pathway, as a place that I wanted to concentrate in sustainability. And I had a meeting coming up with Kirt and I'm like, "Well, what are we gonna talk about?" And I'm thinking through it and I go, "You know, I think I really want to lean into this sustainability thing." And started looking into programs, advanced degrees for it. And I knew, I had a meeting coming up with him and I said, "You know what? I think I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna enroll." And I applied for Arizona State University the night before I had a meeting with him and got into the program. And that has given me kind of the credentials that I needed to move into this space and to have this opportunity.

[00:09:21] John: So, you know, I think for me, it was a long career of trying to do my best at my job and then one day realizing that I could do my best at my job in sustainability. And so really started to shift my effort into that space. I was in a project management role, so not really in sustainability. But had the opportunity to lead the green team, associate resource group at Nationwide. And that taught me, "Oh my goodness, this is, this is where I want to be." I always had a focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion. I had the opportunity to sit as the chair of that committee at Nationwide for a while, and in the first class of the sustainability degree at ASU, they started talking about intersectional environmentalism. And I get chills right now even thinking about that and going, "Oh my God, this is where I want to be."

 So intersectional environmentalism, like I've never heard that before. What is that?

[00:10:21] John: So that is simply saying we can't have a sustainable world unless we have sustainability and equity for everyone. I live a privileged life. We all live a privileged life being in the United States of America. My boss, our founder, talks about the birth lottery that just being born in the US. For myself being born as a straight white-ish male. You know, my mom is Korean but she taught us a little bit about our culture. But we were really raised within a white culture and a white system, and I see the ways that I've benefited from that. I see the extra latitude that I get in my everyday life.

[00:11:06] John: I got kicked out of two colleges and I still get the opportunity to do this. And that's not an equal experience for everyone and so intersectional environmentalism is just looking at the history of how decisions in our past have impacted marginalized communities looking at the obstacles to attaining a sustainable future. There are a lot of choices that can be made that reduce your impact on the planet, that have huge capital cost to them. You can drive an EV, you can get solar, you can do all these different things. But that's not really an option for a lot of people out there. And so what can we do to reduce those barriers to entering a sustainable life for everybody so that we all have this opportunity to kind of work together successfully? And that, that's kind of where intersectional environmentalism rolls in. And it's a big, big passion for me.

[00:12:02] Adam: Oh, neat.

[00:12:03] John: Yeah.

[00:12:04] Adam: How you discovered your own agency to actually decide, "Hey, actually I can do this and I can become this force"? I've always wondered that. Like, what separates somebody who wakes up someday and says, "Hey, I'm gonna start a company and I'm gonna create great change in the world," and somebody who's just like, "Well. All right, I'm gonna get a job and that's all I can do"?

[00:12:21] Dominique: I think I would start there by encouraging that person to know what their superpower is. We all have a superpower. There is a situation that you encounter in your life that you go, "You know what? I got this. This is my stuff. I'm ready to go." Look for that in your life. And that's what I look for. I'm a process person. I had some great people in my life that taught me about efficiency of process, taught me about handing off work, moving things along, organization of communication. 

[00:12:52] John: And it's a passion and it's something that my ear is kind of tuned to at this point. And so as I was looking for where's my space and sustainability, I did try to force myself into what I thought other people expected me to do. And fortunately, you know, through encouragement of people in my orbit, fortunately through dumb luck, I was able to align where I am today with this thing that I'm so passionate about, with this thing that feels like the best tool that I have to bring to this work that we're doing around sustainability so. I think we all have an opportunity to look at what we do well and then put the dot, dot, dot behind that and say, "What do we do well in sustainability?" And look for opportunities to march towards there. And at least for me, you know, making those small steps and looking for where are my opportunities.

[00:13:51] John: Matt, my little brother, told me to always build in silos that exist. That it's easier to build in existing structures than it is to go out and try to build something new. And that was super foundational for like where I went. I wanted to build sustainability at Nationwide, and I was trying to force it for a while in different ways that didn't exist. Well, I tripped across the fact that we had a green team associate resource group that wasn't being utilized. It had been formed three or four years before I was looking at it, it had really gone defunct. Nobody was working on it. So there was process there, there was a recognition of that group. And so instead of trying to create my own thing, I built in that space. And then that kind of led to a different space and another space and another space that I got to build within. And there is very little I've created to get to this spot. It's really just leveraging those spaces that have already been built.

[00:14:51] Dominique: I wanna like maybe get you to share some details of that experience because I know a lot of people are in resource groups. And there's a lot of green teams out there in like company settings or even in like school environments anywhere. And I'm curious like what kinds of things did you start with and what kind of things didn't work and what kind of things did work when you were trying to take a group that existed and actually make them a bit stronger?

[00:15:18] John: One of the things that I try to do in my life is to time travel back to the struggles that I've had before and to thank myself for that work that was put in.

[00:15:28] Dominique: What a positive little sentiment. Like, that's just very beautiful thing that you do for yourself.

[00:15:34] John: I try, you know, it keeps me grounded and keeps me grateful for, you know, saying that this didn't happen by chance. And this didn't just fall, this was hard work. This was a lot of gifts from a lot of people in my orbit. But there was a lot that went into this moment. You know, I think about taking over the green team. So there was no activity in this organization and yet there was still a listed president of the ARG. And simply getting that transitioned over to me in of itself was months of campaigning and work and trying to get it done. 

[00:16:10] Dominique: It's like an elected role?

[00:16:12] John: It is. It's an elected role. But there was no team, there was no committee, no council at that point. So there was nobody to vote for it. And saying, "I want to do this thing." And they're like, "Well, you have to find somebody to vote you in." I'm like, "There's nobody there doing stuff."

[00:16:27] Dominique: No members when joined? No members?

[00:16:28] John: No members when I joined. Nobody was doing anything in it and

[00:16:32] Dominique: Can you share what happened to it? In case people are in a group and they're seeing themselves take a downturn, that's gonna be similar.

[00:16:38] John: Yeah. I'll say that it is one of those anti work philosophies that have really grown in me since the pandemic. There is a mentality with these associate resource groups that it's just bonus work. Like you're expected in an organization like this to do your job for 40, really 45, 50 hours a week if you're investing in your career. And then if you're passionate about diversity, equity, inclusion, or the environment that above and beyond that, you go and do that. Well with sustainability, it is so large in a 28,000 person organization that it is very difficult for one person to take that on. And that's actually what I tried to make the legacy of what I left them is I split that leadership role. And I said, "This needs to be multiple people who are leading this effort because it's too much for one person to do on top of a full-time job."

[00:17:39] John: It is that expectation of uncompensated gifts to your company. And I think that there are people who are super passionate about it, who want to do it. But gosh, you're trying to keep your head above water with your regular job. How are you supposed to go out and do an additional job on top of that? You know, we were fortunate that we got that process together. That is where I get to lean into it and say, "Okay, how do we divide up these responsibilities? How do we make this smaller bites for folks so they can do this thing that they're passionate about and still maintain their role in the organization?"

[00:18:15] John: Right off the bat, I decided that we were going to do a badge. So you've got your identification badge, your security badge at Nationwide. And so I wanted to do a green team badge so that you could walk around and we could get a little bit of branding recognition, a little bit of visibility to it. And so I started working backwards. You know, you can't give a green team plastic badges. It's not recyclable. That's not great. So we came up with bamboo badges. We actually found a vendor who would laser cut these badges. And we always want to try to activate people with these things as well. So we laser cut leaves in them. There were three leaves cut into every badge. It said, ' Green Team Nationwide,' and there are three spots for leaves. And when you got your badge, you would get three stickers as well. And the ask was to challenge yourself to do something sustainability minded three times over the course of the year. And then as you do that, you just go ahead and you give yourself that sticker and you add it on. And so it encourages people to see more sustainability to act on that and to do that. 

[00:19:25] Dominique: This feels inspired by the Girl Scouts.

[00:19:27] John: It does. Absolutely. Yeah. You gotta. Gamification. I mean, such a big part of what we do. 

[00:19:33] John: Do you have any like, insight into just the notion that a company and employees can build a better community as being a part of a green team but there's a fine line between doing initiatives for an organization and building it versus like taking the place of taking sustainability seriously enough to make a department for it?

[00:19:53] John: Yeah. That was a big struggle with us for a long time. We did not have any sort of executive in sustainability. We didn't have a chief sustainability officer. We didn't have a VP of sustainability. And it was really challenging for me because we were a property casualty company. We are insuring people's homes and their cars. And talking about, you know, in 2020 we had 20, I think it was 22 natural disasters that had a billion dollars worth of payments on them. So nationwide is going to be directly impacted by this, and we're trying to ring the bell as this green team and say, "Hey, this is bigger than just us." 

[00:20:40] John: And my encouragement to folks on that is stay in that space, stay in that ERG, push that, at least for us, that worked. So we created this associate resource group. We created an internal podcast where we would bring folks in, talk about sustainability, talk about how it would affect us, and we also went a little bit renegade and we brought in external guests that maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't have, maybe we didn't have permission for it. But we showed the organization what was going on outside. And by the time I left the organization, we did have a VP of sustainability. We had a department of sustainability. You know, it was definitely in its infancy and in a legacy organization. And maybe that's what the lesson is, is patience for some of these legacy organizations.

[00:21:32] John: And it's hard sometimes because we see the effects of climate change going on every day. A tornado touched down yesterday, a mile away from my house. It's going on now so you want these organizations to go fast. At Nationwide when we created this department of sustainability, how it interfaced with all these legacy groups. So we had our property department that was like, "Wait a second, like solar panels? Efficiency? That's our responsibility." We had a chief risk officer and this risk officer is saying, "Whoa, you want me to report up through sustainability? Like I'm doing my own thing. I've been doing my own thing for a really long time here."

[00:22:13] John: I wanna highlight this point. One thing that you said, which I really liked, was like how change happened in a big organization like Nationwide. You brought up words like patience, kind of persistence. But also that if you're putting extra time in to champion something, then you kind of have the right to raise your voice about it. And sometimes that's what's needed in order to get other people to pay attention, because they might have been doing the same thing for 20 years and it just hasn't crossed their mind that this change will lead to something else.

[00:22:43] Dominique: Yeah. I just, this is a lot of wisdom to the notion that you balance patience with like a push. Like you're not just sitting back and waiting, but there's a respectfulness to patience that I think speaks to you as a leader. You know what it looks like to also be patient to someone who like is on your side, but the problem is just hard.

[00:23:03] Adam: Yeah. Well, and also this element of, as you started the podcast, it sounds like you brought your own agency to that of actually finding the people that you wanted to talk to, even if it might not have resonated with the corporate values completely, you are trying something new and pushing the boundaries a little bit. So there is some level of having that freedom to explore, which is very important to figure out, "Hey, what's the best path forward?"

. 

[00:23:27] Dominique: Adam and I were at a presentation recently and what you said was like almost exactly what was shared. But they created a Venn diagram of three circles meeting and it was like where your climate action happens. And it was with a balance between what brings you joy, what you're good at and like what work needs doing. And I, it sounds like that was just very much your line of thinking and figuring out where John's sweet spot is. Yeah. And so now, because that Venn diagram came together, I get to be so authentic in what I do every day. I get to bring my whole self to every role that I'm in with my kiddo. I'm proud of the work that I do at work and in the community. At work, I'm proud of the organization that we are and what we do for this world, for humanity. I'm proud of the leadership that we have on our team. I'm proud of how we treat people from the bottom of the organization to the top. I am so excited for what we're doing at Green Columbus and how we're advancing sustainability and tree canopy coverage and looking out for our marginalized communities here in Central Ohio. And you just feel very overwhelmed sometimes with gratitude and with good fortune. You are just incredibly refreshing.

[00:24:50] John: Hey, thanks friend.

[00:24:51] Adam: Well, and this is just really cool, just like hearing this first part of the journey of like one, how in your own life, you found that agency to say, "Yes, this is something that I care about" and then hear are the actions that you did to get there and how things kind of unfolded around that. So I think if you're listening and you're trying to figure out what it is that you wanna do saying, "Hey, this is what I'm curious about," and following that is really powerful. Just giving yourself permission to go and discover.

[00:25:17] Dominique: And the idea that creating big change can happen with your own joy, I think that often isn't really said that much, and I just appreciate how optimistic you are while being clearly just very intelligent and deep in your industry and your work. Because I think often we think we're supposed to trade some of those things for other. 

[00:25:36] Dominique: Okay. Well, in our next episode, we'll dive into what you called the Solar Coaster, um, which I really like that term. And we'll talk more about what you've done as it relates to solar and a little bit more of the ARP success story.

[00:25:49] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry if you're listening, you have to wait until the next episode to hear all the great solar stuff. 

[00:25:54] Dominique: So, as always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability, and we're here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter what your background, your career, or your interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:26:09] Adam: If you know a Green Champion that should be our next guest, email us at thegreenchampions@gmail.com, or you can find our show notes on thegreenchampions.com. Our music is by Zayn Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We will dig into another sustainability success story in our next episode. 

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