Dominique Hadad - Sustainability as a Moving Target

[00:00:10] Adam: Welcome to our podcast, Green Champions.

[00:00:12] Dominique: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire.

[00:00:21] Adam: I'm so glad to be here alongside Dominique, the sustainability expert. We will bring you guests who see the potential for impact in their job or community and have done something about it.

[00:00:31] Dominique: That means from entrepreneurs to artists, scientists, to activists. This podcast is gonna be a platform for Green Champions to share their stories and plant some new ideas.

[00:00:42] Adam: So whether you're turning in during your daily commute, relaxing at home, or taking a nature walk. Today you're gonna hear from our co-host, Dominique Hadad, and we are gonna dive into a little bit about why we're here and how we think about sustainability in a way that will impact your life.

[00:00:58] Dominique: Yeah, and I love to just say that Adam, I'm very excited we're doing this. This is our first step to making Green Champions a podcast, and I'm so excited to tell you about my background myself and then hear about you.

[00:01:09] Adam: Yeah. And likewise, this is a very collaborative podcast, so we expect you to be involved sharing us feedback of what you wanna hear more of and what you really care about. And we'll be asking about that throughout the podcast.

[00:01:20] Dominique: Cool. Well, what do you wanna know about me, Adam?

[00:01:24] Adam: So, Dominique, let's start off. I would love to hear just a little bit of a background about your experience with Green Scope Consulting.

[00:01:31] Dominique: Yeah. So you've already alluded to it. Thank you. So I'm the founder of Green Scope Consulting, located in Columbus, Ohio.

[00:01:39] Dominique: And we do sustainability consulting essentially for organizations helping them to become zero waste operations. So Green Scopes' entire existence is seeking to transform organizations into zero waste operations. And I started Green Scope right outta college. I had a background in engineering, pitched my idea to essentially bring sustainability knowledge to small businesses in this consulting fashion, really.

[00:02:07] Dominique: And then I won a prize that allowed me to get funding to launch my business for the first year, and now we're three years later still doing that. And that has put me in a position to support people who work in sustainability in different ways and be an asset to them to achieve their sustainability goals.

[00:02:26] Dominique: And that really feeds right into kind of what we're doing here with Green Champions. I've been able to see how many different kinds of people have been able to do really amazing stuff in the world of sustainability that people don't often get to see? And I get to be their cheerleader. 

[00:02:42] Dominique: And I think the Green Champions kind of seeks to do that in its own way too, of helping to bring light to people who are doing really awesome stuff in sustainability and frankly, just make that feel more commonplace as an understanding for all of us of what that actually looks like. And we have some our goals here too, around like demystifying sustainability terms or making people feel like they have a place in solving this problem, that frankly, the news makes really daunting, and stressful. So, that's my point of view in the world of sustainability is I get to support champions all the time. And then this podcast is a place for us to give them a microphone and share some of those stories too.

[00:03:21] Adam: Exciting. I I love this. I would love to hear just a bit more about Green Scope consulting. Like what does it actually mean to turn an organization into a zero waste operation?

[00:03:30] Dominique: Yeah, that's a good question. Most people don't know. So kind of first thing we usually do is explain what that means.

[00:03:38] Dominique: Which, if you're curious, so the world of zero waste really means not zero waste. You're still creating something of waste to be getting that certification. But zero waste technically means 90% or more of your waste stream is diverted from the landfill. So you can still be making waste, but it's going other places. Being repurposed, being recycled, being composted, being utilized for other industries, or just reduced or eliminated, you know? As long as 90% or more of your waste stream as an organization is going somewhere productive and not sitting in the landfill, you can get that zero waste accreditation. 

[00:04:18] Dominique: So that means we help organizations identify where else waste could be going or what are you wasting, how much is it costing you, what could you be doing about it? And then build that journey of, so that kind of then folds into. What you can do about it? So what we do is the education piece, which sounds a lot what I just did but also getting into maybe like nuanced education around different tactics you can have. 

[00:04:45] Dominique: We also do like engagement activities. So whether it's for students or community members or employees, the people in your system that are contributing to that footprint have a, a role to play. So we'll help with the engagement tactics of getting them on board. 

[00:05:01] Dominique: And then we do measurements. So I'm an engineer at heart, so like the data-driven stuff I think is really cool. I'll try to keep that off of the podcast, but I think it's cool. And we do measurements. So like what does it mean to establish your footprint benchmarking and get a sense of where you're starting from. So we'll do waste studies, waste audits, we'll do observational studies, things that you need data backing to understand where you're starting from. 

[00:05:27] Dominique: And then we will also do like project management. So depending on what you need are general consulting services. So depending on what you're tackling and how big the undertaking is, we can help with the general project management that you would associate with consulting. And that's kind of Green Scope's bread and butter.

[00:05:41] Dominique: So, we education, training, measurements themselves as well as like the actual project management. So kind of vague, but the big thing is that our clients look different. We've worked with schools, small businesses, corporations, now doing some stuff with like hospitals. So it's really hard to say in simplicity without giving like tangible case examples. But we're really there just to hold their hand, figure out what they need to make this stuff happen. But it's always comes down to measuring, educating, and then executing on that project. Did that help to paint a picture for you?

[00:06:16] Adam: Yeah. So one big piece of that is education. What does that mean for everyone who's listening right now?

[00:06:22] Dominique: Do you mean like what should they know? 

[00:06:24] Adam: What are they gonna get from you being here and listening to you?

[00:06:27] Dominique: Oh, nothing. Um, they'll get nothing. Yeah, if you're thinking that I'm gonna tell you interesting stuff, then no. No, I'm just kidding. 

[00:06:36] Dominique: I think it matters to me that people understand that sustainability should not be in a box. So if I can do anything for our listeners that are feeling like they want to understand sustainability better, I think, frankly, I have a few hot takes on the world of sustainability and how we talk about it.

[00:06:51] Dominique: I'm excited to bridge that with a lot of our guests who frankly exist in different industries and I have things to learn from them. I hope you do too. And also our listeners, but I look forward to asking some of the tough questions or kind of the questions no one wants to talk about. And I think also the world of sustainability is always changing, so I think we're all always learning and we're lying if we're not in the world of sustainability.

[00:07:16] Dominique: So, education wise, I hope I can share a few tidbits that I know people ask me all the time and we can easily plug it in here at the podcast, let people listen to it. But I also think. I imagine we're gonna be all learning together and putting things in layman's terms. That matters a lot to me that the world of sustainability feels accessible because it needs to be for us to make any progress.

[00:07:38] Dominique: It'll be a big mantra I think of Green Champions is that anybody can be a green champion. So if we're gonna say that the information needs to be available for anyone, it needs to be in a language anyone can understand. 

[00:07:50] Dominique: So those are probably my thoughts is that I think of combination of using our time together to touch on things that don't usually get explained in a really meaningful, accessible way, but then also being honest that we don't know because it's confusing or it has changed, and like being real about that to make people feel like they have a say in what's going on and that they can do something in this big problem we're all trying to navigate.

[00:08:17] Adam: I really like this point of, "Hey, we're all learning, right?" So for me, I am very new to sustainability where I've been in the social impact world for a while, and I feel like I care very much about you know our planet, but I really don't know what I should be doing.

[00:08:35] Adam: And so I feel like I'm starting from ground zero. And I love that you are also learning and that you are a voice of being able to distill down, "Hey, let's not focus here. Let's put our attention here." and if you're listening to this podcast, that's what you're gonna see is us being able to really dissect an issue and make it accessible for you in order to learn more.

[00:08:53] Dominique: Yeah, I'll be honest, I know a lot of podcasts. I've loved sustainability for a long time. That's been like my favorite topic for so long. 

[00:09:00] Adam: Why? 

[00:09:01] Dominique: Okay. We can get into why in a second. But it's a good question. But I think a lot of the content out there about sustainability and why I hope this ends up being an exciting adventure for all of us is a lot of the, the information out there around sustainability is led by either experts that are way too high up on the totem pole of knowledge, and they speak in a way that feels very insider to their community, dropping finance terms or regulations or standards and just talking in a way that you don't even understand what how to visualize what they're talking about. And frankly, they probably don't either. ,

[00:09:35] Adam: So you're not gonna give us any like professor speech.

[00:09:38] Dominique: No, I hope not, but I don't even have any. But I think the other end of the spectrum is people who are way too down low. Talking about like bringing a reusable bag where you go or like, not that they're, those are bad things to talk about, those are helpful tips. But I am excited to hang out in the middle where we're a few steps ahead. There's enough information out there about individualism and how you can impact your own footprint. I'm excited that we can talk more at the organization level, but make it feel like you have an impact to create in that space. 

[00:10:11] Dominique: Whatever organization you're a part of, not because you work in a certain kind of company, but because you're a part of a community, you're a part of a neighborhood, you're a part of a family, you work at a company, probably you work in or you're in a school. I'm excited for us to talk about that, like middle ground of impact and bring it back to, I know we'll talk about agency a little bit, talking about like the role you have, feeling empowered to see your place in that ecosystem, but.

[00:10:38] Dominique: So, yeah, I think on the note of what already exists out there, there's a lot around high level sustainability talk. There's a lot that's like super first steps how to change your life, and I think that I'm excited for Green Champions to be a knowledge base in the middle.

[00:10:54] Adam: Yes. So we are gonna have fun with this podcast. If you know Dominique, you know, she's so much full of energy. If you know me, I like to have a good time. And so the last thing we wanna do is bore you. If you ever find this podcast boring, let us know and we'll sit down and have coffee with you and convince you otherwise.

[00:11:09] Adam: So, I, 

[00:11:10] Dominique: I also know Adam and I both hope that you, the listener, feel like this is serving you in an educational way. So if you're listening and you have a thought on something you want us to address, you have a question, a topic in sustainability, you think that is really topical or interesting , and you wanna let us know how you want us to explore it, please let us know what that is because a part of this is supposed to be interactive and we're learning from you as you listen and inform us of what is truly the things that are on your mind. So hopefully you'll let us know if a topic is of interest to you or if you have a question, and you'll see the podcast change shape as your listeners play a bigger role in, in what we're doing here. You agree, Adam?

[00:11:51] Adam: Totally. All right, so. Why? You, you waited my question earlier. Why do you love sustainability?

[00:11:58] Dominique: It's a good question. I think it was a hard thing for me to like pin down for a long time. So I will say like, I think I found love for sustainability before I could put words to it, which feels notable. I think for me, probably two things stand out as like key drivers.

[00:12:12] Dominique: And one is that, my family's from the Caribbean, so, I'm first generation American. My parents are both born and raised and then migrated out of Trinidad and Tobago, which is like a very commercialized Caribbean island. Not often given a lot of media time, so cool to give some Trinidad content.

[00:12:31] Dominique: So my parents were born there and so I grew up going every single year to visit all my cousins, all family, you know, is there. And then I have three siblings here and my parents. I mentioned that because one thing you know about sustainability is, or the world of sustainability is that climate change and global warming affect negatively islands first. Those communities see the impact of climate change first because water levels are rising. Their communities are just way more susceptible to changes. When you think about waste in itself, I mean like a landfill in the US is a problem in terms of like real estate and land. But when your land is so limited, on an island, you know, you have to be really conscious of how you're being a good steward of that space, of your resources.

[00:13:20] Dominique: Also costs more and it's more intentional to get things to and from. So the whole world of islands is like a whole sustainability field. It'd be cool to have someone come on at some point that does some, maybe some cool stuff around like sustainable island design or like how they manage like regional planning for islands. 

[00:13:38] Dominique: So anyway, that's a big topic in sustainability. And they use islands as test beds all the time for sustainability practices. But I was just seeing early on that the way that the behaviors were done here versus there, they're also a much less wealthy country.

[00:13:56] Dominique: They're getting hit with a lot of commercialization, industrialization on space and with people who don't live there, like a lot of companies have their manufacturing sites there. I was seeing the impact of sustainability on the natural environment in that space while getting to travel back and forth from a young age and see the difference and I think for me it just felt like a topic that was really close to home. If we don't protect the planet, my family will feel, feel it early. Whereas I had the cushioned privilege of being here in Ohio where even in the grand scheme of the US, the Midwest is better off at the moment, in terms of like the impacts of climate change compared to like the Southwest or other places in the US.

[00:14:38] Dominique: Like even if we're not going into other countries, you know? So I just had that exposure I think early on to the fact that the places that get to create the impact and make the environmental wrongdoing or the people who have like the capitalism at their fingertips and those who feel the brunt. We're not the same people. So I think for one that was like close to home, the impact of climate change. And then I think the second thing that I've learned, and you probably like this a lot with the world of social enterprise, people with social enterprise are good, right? 

[00:15:09] Adam: Oh yeah, totally, 100%. 

[00:15:11] Dominique: Yeah. And I found that with sustainability. I was drawn to the fact that people who work in sustainability are a unique breed in the sense that they are working really hard for someone that cannot thank them. And I just noticed that like the kind of thankless act people were willing to do or they were willing to work long hours or push themselves or be innovative knowing that like there's really not gonna be any thank you. If you do well in sustainability, nothing happens. Like that's the outcome you're hoping for is, is the essential. Nothing, you know, you can plant a tree, but like..

[00:15:46] Adam: Nobody's gonna come up and be like, thank you for planting that tree. You just, you know, created all this extra oxygen for us.

[00:15:51] Dominique: Exactly. Exactly. And like, even if we do something good that cleans up an environment, you kind of took away the problem. So it just looks good. Like, it just looks like nothing essentially. 

[00:16:02] Adam: So you like the like thankless work of like making the world better without having to be the spotlight of attention?

[00:16:07] Dominique: Maybe I think, I think all that was to say less about like me and more, I think I've been drawn to the kinds of people in this space.

[00:16:14] Adam: That kind of like selflessness of like, "Hey, I want to show up and make a difference even if I'm not gonna get external validation for this." It's like, "Yeah, this is the right thing to do and I'm doing it because I wanna live in a more beautiful world." 

[00:16:25] Dominique: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I've found, I found that community of quote unquote coworkers really compelling and motivating and inspiring and people I want to be around. So I think I kind of fell into sustainability because of this, like ability to see the impact and the value of it. And then I think I stayed because of the people I've been able to be around and the way they make me feel and the way they would make me want to be like them. So I wouldn't say I'm necessarily as good as all of them, but I'm very proud to be a part of this community of people of Green Champions. Like truly I think that I'm excited about this podcast because because we get to just talk to people who do really cool stuff and are lovely and have like such great intentions and they just work so hard for, for such a good cause. 

[00:17:13] Adam: Right. And if you're listening, that means you're one of these people too. So we want to draw you in and hang out with you. 'cause we already think you're a cool person. 

[00:17:19] Dominique: Yeah. Thank that for listening to this. Like thank you for having like such a care about such an interesting thing and a lot of fields, I will say, and we'll guess to that with social enterprise stuff with you, Adam, but others, there's so much important work out there that's being done. So I don't mean to minimize any of that. I just have found kind of a special place in my heart with the world of sustainability. But yeah, to give us sneak peek into hearing more about Adam real quick, but were the people you wanted to be around a big part of it for you with social enterprise? 

[00:17:48] Adam: For me, one of the things that really draws me to this is the people, right? People who are like, "Hey, I want to create something new". And I love these ideas when people come together and share those ideas and listen to each other, I think that's where a lot of magic happens. I see some of that cool stuff happening in the world of sustainability, and that's where I was like, "Hey. I wanna learn more, I wanna be able to share this with my people who are doing social impact work and help these ideas reach a broader audience." That's why I'm here. And I love that you're listening, so thank you for taking the time to listen to us.

[00:18:20] Adam: So Dominique, you get asked a lot of questions, what's the most common thing that somebody comes and asks you?

[00:18:26] Dominique: That's a very good question, Adam. I think one of the, and the answer's a lot is a lot of 'em. They wanna ask, is this choice I'm making sustainable? And they ask it. It usually is like looking to me as their advisor in this decision making over how to determine if an act is sustainable. And you probably heard people say that, right?

[00:18:52] Adam: I do it.

[00:18:52] Dominique: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do it too.

[00:18:54] Adam: I do it to you all the time. 

[00:18:55] Dominique: And, and for one, I don't blame them. Like, I wanna put that out there first. I think it's a good question to be asking. I'm grateful for anybody who's out there asking that question to themselves or to people around them. But I would say my contributing thought to that question is almost always this notion that something being sustainable is not an absolute. The word sustainable is not an absolute, and it's instead a comparative word. So the same way you wouldn't ask, "Is my shirt better?" I wouldn't show up to you, Adam, and say, Hey, is my shirt better? You'd be like, what do you mean? What? What was the other shirt you were gonna today?

[00:19:34] Adam: Hey, hold on. If a girl ever asks a guy, is this piece of clothing better? The answer is yes. There is no no other answer.

[00:19:42] Dominique: No, that's wrong. But really what you wanna know is. Is it better than something else? 

[00:19:48] Dominique: Yeah. What was the other option? And I think often we think the word sustainable, which the world has fed us this knowledge, so it makes sense. We have this misconception, this feeds into the whole greenwashing problem. But the word sustainable is a comparative word. So one choice can be more sustainable than the other. And always, almost always the most sustainable option is nothing. Not leaving your house today is more sustainable than driving or taking the train, you know? 

[00:20:19] Adam: Got it. So, it's a spectrum, right? So it's like, "hey, if you're doing an activity, what's better? A or B?" Not, "Hey, should I do B?"

[00:20:27] Dominique: Absolutely. Yeah. Sustainability is a progress on a spectrum. And I think that's really important to understand because the world of sustainable is always changing. The rules around sustainability is always changing. So at one point we thought the most sustainable way to do something was X and then a year later we found a new innovation and then we were like, "Oh my gosh, we can do even better." So for example, like maybe a more sustainable alternative many years ago was a less carbon intensive manufacturing practice to create a plastic cup. So then this new plastic was more sustainable than the original plastic. And then we had a new innovation that we can now make plastic out of corn and it can be fully compostable. And now that is more sustainable than the second plastic we were able to develop. And that, I think is the conversation we should be having more often. It's like, what is the most sustainable choice I can be making right now? What does the world need? Where are we going towards? And that practicality around like what is it to be sustainable and what can I be doing given the world around me.

[00:21:37] Adam: Got it. So this is what you mean by this is a world which is always evolving and so we have to keep learning because there's new stuff coming out all the time and a lot of new stuff is coming out all the time.

[00:21:49] Dominique: Yeah. I mean, do you feel like you hear that often? Do you feel like sustainability has been explained to you in that way? 

[00:21:54] Adam: No. So it's, it's really cool to think about it like this. And I think also that we are gonna be this resource for all of you who are listening, of getting you caught up to where things are and then keeping you on top of the latest stuff so that you know, and like, you know, "Hey, here's all the new things that are coming out."

[00:22:11] Dominique: Yeah, and that's why I'm also really excited for listeners like you to tell us what things are on your mind or what questions feel relevant, because I think these are the kinds of conversations I'd love to have of like, what are people telling you matters. What do you think matters? Where are you trying to find your place in all of this? 

[00:22:28] Dominique: But that's probably my biggest thing, Adam, education wise is, is being able to change the way we talk about the word sustainable, and also making sure we all have a clear idea of what sustainability is. It is reducing our environmental impact with all these different choices that we're making. It is speaking about like the overall footprint of materials or actions or decisions or organizations and it really is on a spectrum.

[00:22:54] Adam: So does that mean I can't ask you if I should put like a plastic that has a little five on it in my recycling bin or not?

[00:23:00] Dominique: You can ask every questions you'd like Adam, and I'll answer them.

[00:23:03] Adam: Great. Cool. Well, I love what we've covered here today, just hearing about your background, what you've done to start Green Scope consulting, and kind of why you got into sustainability and how that's relevant for all of us. I think that's really neat. But also this whole point that what we're talking about is starting to shine a light on the spectrum of sustainability. And as you show up to this podcast, you're gonna start to see all these different pieces, which you never knew existed. Because I feel like I learn something new every time I sit down with Dominique and now we're bringing in all these great experts. So we've got some great stuff planned. 

[00:23:37] Dominique: I'm excited. I'm really thrilled for some of the guests we have lined up. And thanks for doing this intro episode with me, Adam, and thank you for listening. One Day at a time here at Green Champions. So.

[00:23:47] Adam: Yeah, Hey Dominic, thank you so much for sharing your story today.

[00:23:52] Dominique: Yeah, thanks Adam. As always, Green Champions is gonna keep bringing you guests. That had found a unique way to really champion sustainability. And we're really here to put names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you have the potential to create sustainable change. 

[00:24:10] Adam: If you know a Green champion that should be one of our first guests. Email us at thegreenchampions@gmail.com and if you wanna find out more, check out our show notes on the green champions.com. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing and keep championing for a brighter, greener world.