Brittanie Dabney - The Environmental Scientist Diving into Contaminated Waters

[00:00:10] Dominique: Hello, welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:13] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with the Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:21] Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and have done something about it.

[00:00:30] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:38] Dominique: Today, Adam and I are joined by Brittanie Dabney, an environmental scientist with over 10 years of experience, 10 years in environmental toxicology research. Maybe you're wondering what is environmental toxicology? It is a field of science concerned with the study of harmful effects of various chemical, biological, and physical agents on living organisms.

Don't worry. We'll hear a lot more about it from Brittanie, but she's currently a PhD candidate in biology and urban sustainability. Today, we're approaching sustainability around the topic of PFAS and how microplastics impact our life. We hear a lot about PFAS, forever chemicals, microplastics, you name it, and the dangers of these things in our water supply. So I can't wait to hear your wisdom. Brittanie, thanks for joining us today.

[00:01:21] Brittanie: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat more about my favorite topic, which is environmental contaminants. I know it's not a good thing, but it's something that we definitely need to chat about, so I'm really excited.

[00:01:34] Dominique: Definitely. Well, we're gonna focus this episode on like how you got here and who you are. 

So let's begin that by talking about what first sparked your interest in just environmental work in general.

[00:01:44] Brittanie: I'm from Detroit, Michigan, born and raised in the city. However, my parents were very much into the environment, especially my mom. Taking me out camping, always going to the beach, I loved animals. And so that kind of sparked my interest in nature and the environment in general, but also being in Detroit and then, you know, going out to these places to go camping. Just seeing the disparities between the city versus the suburbs and rural environments, it really got me thinking about the impact of where we are here in the city, the industrial contamination, especially with Detroit being at its prime, the place where a lot of those industrial contaminants that which we call now forever chemicals were produced and released out into the environment.

Yeah, just really interested in sort of urban environments and the types of contaminants there, why there's a difference between us and then those that live in, you know, the suburbs and in the forest areas. And so yeah, that really got my initial interest in it, especially at a more younger age.

And then as I progressed through my studies in college, just really getting into the details of all of that. So what does it mean for us when a contaminant enters into our body or what does it mean for aquatic life? I'm really into answering challenging questions and because we don't know that much about water and what's living in there, how contaminants behave in the water, I find that to be a very interesting challenge that I want to continue on addressing.

[00:03:21] Adam: And when did you know this was like something you wanted to study?

[00:03:24] Brittanie: So relatively early. So I would say in high school, I wanted to be a microbiologist, so just microbiologist, but focused on like marine environments. And discovering new species. And then also sort of just understanding what can harm a species. So I would say very early on since high school.

And then later in college, I went more to freshwater biology after I went to marine conferences because a lot of it is modeling and math and it's just, I'm more on the biology end of things. Biology and chemistry. Not necessarily a lot of the computer modeling, so.

[00:04:06] Adam: Got it. So something that was more practical and hands-on. 

[00:04:09] Dominique: How much of your research has gotten you just to be outside? Has that been a big part of it or are you mostly in the lab?

[00:04:15] Brittanie: It's been a huge part of it. So I've been pretty lucky so far in my journey to be able to choose the types of projects that I wanna do. My advisors have been pretty chill. I've selected labs where they do field research, and I'm really interested in how do you go from lab to predicting what could happen in the environment where there's so many variables to account for. I always make sure in my research that I had a lab component but also a field component. So I would say it breaks down into 50/50.

[00:04:47] Adam: So when you say field research, like paint a picture, I'm curious. Like, I always like imagine somebody in like a big yellow suit and all the big rubber boots going out and like digging holes like. What is field research?

[00:04:58] Brittanie: I mean, sometimes it looks like that. I've definitely seen that before. For me, 'cause I work in water, so I'm usually wearing waders. Sometimes go out there in flip flops though, especially when it's nice and warm out. And the preparation is probably the hardest part.

So like making sure you have everything 'cause once you're out in the field, sometimes it's hard, like you can't really go back and get something that you left. So it's that early prep stage. And then once you're out there, and especially if you already know what you're doing, it's pretty seamless after that. You're either collecting samples a lot in my case is actually doing field experiments. 

I like looking at how different organisms in the environment behave where they select certain habitats based on the contamination. And so sometimes it means constructing something that will be placed in the stream that will help give an indication of cause and effect.

So yes. It can be very like long days. So a lot of hiking depending on where you are. When it comes to mountainous regions, I worked in Colorado, but also did research in Japan, in the mountains, and it could just be super long days, you're tired after. 

 the good thing is there's been enough research to show like mentally how the environment or being out in nature affects your mental health. So I think that's a nice portion of incorporating field research as well. It just makes me feel better when I go out and do work.

[00:06:20] Dominique: Yeah, I'm glad you get to incorporate that and that you get some choice, like you were saying, you get to kind of craft what you do. I don't know if Adam knows this, but I did research for a while studying wetlands, and I was studying how well wetlands sequester carbon.

I similarly was putting on waders. And I was by far the smallest person on my team. And so when you are wearing waders that are like far too big and you're walking around in the mud, like the waders stay in the mud and you don't.

[00:06:50] Brittanie: Yeah.

[00:06:51] Dominique: And I would have to kayak around, sometimes just walking right into the water. But sometimes you gotta like boat all the way in or get on a rowboat. Are you also experiencing that and you have to bring all your supplies in a small boat and get all the way out there? 

[00:07:06] Brittanie: Yeah. I feel like every time we've tried a boat in the field, it's been a disaster. Either something happens with the boat motor, the water is too low. There was one time where the water was so low that we had to carry the canoes up this canyon and we had, of course, our stuff in the canoes. It was absolutely horrible. It was hot. And yeah, I feel like it's always something bad that happens even one time, we were like, "Oh, it might be a good idea to just sample." And the water was too high and we didn't have like an actual boat, so we got a blow up boat, which was also pretty horrible.

[00:07:47] Dominique: That's a questionable decision. 

[00:07:49] Brittanie: Yeah. I don't really like the boat idea, but even the waders though, there's been times where there's been so much sedimentation where we couldn't actually stand up and walk across the stream. You had to like crawl and we were in our waders. Or else if you stand up you'll get stuck. So there's a lot of those getting stuck issues as well in waders.

[00:08:09] Dominique: Yeah, I definitely have experienced that. 

Before we get too deep into what your experience has been like doing research, I also wanna make sure we let you explain what environmental toxicology is. So how would you explain it to someone who does not understand this topic?

Oh, environmental toxicology? I would explain it simply as the study of chemicals in the environment. So whether or not they're actual contaminant, depends on, you know, society. If we consider a small amount of contaminant, then fine, but we can also study trace chemicals in the environment. So those that might be perceived as not having a major impact. And you really focus on water and the presence of those chemicals in waterways as opposed to some other folks might study it in different places.

[00:08:54] Brittanie: We have different environmental compartments. So we have air, water, soil, and then the actual sediment. So the sediment that's in the water. So I focus on the water and sediment, but also I've done research in soil, so looking at microplastics in soils as well as just understanding nutrient contamination. So whether that's like after someone applies a particular pesticide, what's the nutrient profile? Like, what's the amount of nitrogen and phosphorus that can contribute eventually to things like harmful algal blooms, and sort of, you know, destruction of ecosystems, especially in those agricultural areas. 

[00:09:35] Adam: One, I'm learning a lot about this stuff. When people are talking about that, are they usually looking at things like you said, for like certain chemicals like nitrogen that cause other problems like the algal blooms? 

[00:09:45] Brittanie: Yeah, that's why it doesn't always have to be considered a contaminant by definition. It could be a indicator of a contaminant. So when we look at like the amount of nitrogen that naturally occurs in the environment, if it becomes to a certain concentration, then we might consider it an environmentally harmful level. 

And that can indicate several things, and that's where the environmental perspective comes in because we have to account for so many different things. So it's not just the nitrogen or phosphorus level is high, and then we can just guess what happens from there.

[00:10:19] Dominique: It's usually some additional steps. So where that nitrogen and phosphorus is in the environment, what are the local land uses around where you found that high concentration of nitrogen and phosphorus. Brittanie, I was gonna ask, help us understand why this is so important. 

So you mentioned like studying in Colorado and in Illinois and being in Japan, and maybe somebody is listening and thinking, "Oh, those are all far from where I live. I'm probably good." Can you help us understand why this type of science is so important and why we care that there are contaminants in our waterways when maybe we think that's not happening close to home or relevant close to home?

[00:11:01] Brittanie: Yeah, so there's a lot of information that you can get from doing a research project, 50 miles away from you or so. And how that understanding how that can be relevant to you. So, in the field, we typically group contaminants. Let's say there's a particular type of pharmaceutical that's polluting the water. This can happen in, I mean, it's happened in Colorado. It can happen in a lot of agricultural places where you have a lot of feedstock or animals basically ranches. And so let's say that's released into the water in Colorado, but you have a similar landscape, a similar situation in another state near you, you can sort of anticipate what the impacts of their practices will be on your drinking water resources. 

So it's all connected. And we also have to understand our water is connected as well, so like the water system. That's why you can find microplastics in areas where there's no development happening is because these contaminants travel similar to PCBs, the Forever Chemicals travel from the water to the air or to the soil and you have to think about the animals that are transporting it as well. And even the sediment, chemicals combine to the sediment, which allows for transport of those chemicals to other places. So it really does matter what happens in one area.

And we know this from climate change as well. There's parts of the world where they're not doing any harmful activities, no harmful industrial practices, but they're still impacted by the effects of climate change. And so we can think about the same way with our chemical contaminants as well.

Another thing is just sort of thinking about the setup of experiments, which I like to talk about is like experimental design. And so what I'm really into is in the applied sciences. Taking something from the lab, doing it in the field, and then how can that be used to actually change people's practices, whether that's BMP, so Best Management Practices, whether that affects how do we better improve our regulations around the environment.

And so that's an important thing to know as well because even though in our everyday lives, we probably aren't too cognizant of like what is around us is definitely a huge part of our regulations. And so count the EPA, USGS, USDA, they're all thinking about contamination in our environment.

While it's not at the forefront of society, I feel like in the back it's definitely a major issue and there's so many rules. They're even thinking about our Clean Water Act. 

There's so many things you cannot do, even if you have water on your land and it varies by state. So some states you can't go through somebody's waterway in the backyard. Some you can, some you can wade, some you can't touch the bottom of the river while you're moving through the water. So it's very important that we understand that there's a lot of intricacies when studying environmental contamination, but also how we use our waterways. And it's all regulated more than we think it is. 

[00:14:13] Adam: It sounds like it's a lot more complicated than just, "Oh, hey, people are going out, running science experiments to understand this and coming up with solutions. I don't have to worry about it". Sounds like there's a lot of moving pieces that you have to figure out and dance with.

[00:14:26] Brittanie: Yeah. And I think, also considering sort of the human aspect in all of this, like how are we actually using our water and making these experiments relevant to what's actually happening now and people's land use. It might have been maybe decades ago where people were taking the water directly from their backyards and then using that on their land, but now people are getting water from further distances.

Thinking about how that works when you think about the traveling of contaminants from one area to another, even thinking about getting water piped in from other states is definitely important to consider what's happening elsewhere in terms of what your exposure is now.

[00:15:10] Dominique: Yeah, that feels like another layer of the conversation of like advancement only folds in more variables and more concerns when it comes to environmental work of like, it's wonderful when we see things developing and getting more complex and the world getting more connected. Same with technology. But with the water system, there's so many implications that we haven't fully understood.

Now that means a problem that arises somewhere else, has like such a further impact. And I think the interesting thing about this is like your knowledge is so rich on like the toxicology side, like the contaminants these bad components that are coming into living organisms. But also you have to have a pretty in depth knowledge of our water system and that is so interesting. Did one of those loves for you come first?

[00:15:54] Brittanie: I would say like on scale, probably my love of animals, of course. And then love of like, just nature, like ecosystems in general, like the complexity. I don't know why I wanna put myself through this, but

It's extremely complex, but I don't know, maybe 'cause I'm a only child, I don't, I had to like play alone and like I loved puzzles and yeah, I just love challenges and thinking about the details of things. And so environmental sciences, if anyone out there loves that sort of stuff, I think environmental science would be ideal. Another issue compared to some of the more singular focused sciences, environmental science is interdisciplinary.

So we really don't have many theories that have become laws, and that's because what could happen in one place is it could be one variable off that can then make it a totally different outcome. And then we also have to understand the connection, like the importance that people have in altering that.

The complexity of everything probably is what kept me, I guess, in the environmental sciences.

[00:16:58] Dominique: That says a lot about your interest in a challenge.

[00:17:01] Adam: Now, are there takeaways that like people in the general public can take away from like the research that you're doing of like what they can do to make a better impact through what you've learned?

[00:17:10] Brittanie: Yeah, I definitely think over the years there's been like more awareness around things like our chemical and physical contaminants, but also climate change. Definitely, I think what we can all do is just educate more people because we're noticing even now there's more sustainable products there's more people trying to innovate, create whether it's AI or more tech based solutions.

Also getting more diversity in the field gives a different perspective. So I think the more people that are educated on their environment, but also the different careers in this space I think is for the better. That's something I like to focus on when I talk to children here in the city, like go out to schools things like that is because there's so many careers within the fields of environmental science, whether you're interested in law or being a doctor or art, there's always something related to the environment that you could do.

[00:18:09] Adam: That's cool. What do the kids love the most when you talk to them?

[00:18:12] Brittanie: They love the animals. But especially when I talk to like high schoolers, they're really interested in the interdisciplinary aspect of environmental sciences and the fact that you can do a diversity of things. And so I always like to remind them like any interdisciplinary field in particular, you can create a lane for yourself and be yourself within this career without feeling like you have to follow the same track as those previously, because you might think there's not that many options or diversity. 

So let's say you're an artist. But I met a lot of artists slash scientists lately and understanding that you can do both. So you can work on the hard sciences, but you can also help the hard scientists through your art as well, because that's a level of communication that's needed to reach the public, but also to communicate science.

So yeah, I definitely think that's one of the things I like to focus on. It's different careers in the field.

[00:19:13] Dominique: I love that, and I also just wanna acknowledge that I think, as someone who studied engineering I'm looking at a female scientist. 

Can you share if people feel represented in this space and like how you yourself just saw representation that made this feel accessible for you? Because I think that is really awesome that you've been in this space for 10 years. That's not nothing.

[00:19:32] Brittanie: I think the most important things is like your advisors and mentors. my first advisor when I first started doing research in this space in undergraduate, she was supportive. She was not necessarily the type that tries to mimic a more sort of masculine or like male dominance, but she was herself and that sort of gave the first example I had of a woman doing what she wants to do and she's going to make whatever she wants to happen to happen. 

And so I'm lucky, like I end up coming back to the university as a PhD student under her. So definitely having those examples of good advisors, mentors definitely make a huge difference. And then also, of course just understanding that in certain spaces, you are just going to be the only one like you there, and you do have to, to some degree just be okay with that and get over any sort of anxiety and realize, like a lot of people also don't know as much as you. A lot of people are winging it. Like it's, it's okay. It's okay to make mistakes and you'll bounce back from it.

Especially in the field of science, like we're supposed to be making mistakes, supposed to experiment, fail, come up with something better. And so that's I think that's something to be just aware about is just sometimes you are gonna be the only one and it's okay.

[00:21:00] Adam: I love that. I think that's a great philosophy for life. Like experiment, make mistakes, and come up with something 

[00:21:05] Brittanie: Mm-Hmm. 

[00:21:06] Adam: better. 

[00:21:06] Brittanie: Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

[00:21:07] Dominique: Yeah. That's awesome. And I'm, I'm so glad that you had someone in your life that showed you what that could look like, so that you could be here and talk to us and be doing this amazing research. I'm so glad that we're gonna get to dive into the next episode and talk about why this is so topical right now as a topic and we can hear more about what your research findings have really been.

But thank you so much for sharing your story with us and how you saw such a need for this kind of science to be furthered, to protect the animals and our ecosystem. And I love that you found a way to incorporate being outside and taking care of yourself in the process.

[00:21:41] Brittanie: Thank you.

[00:21:42] Adam: How can people connect with you and support the work that you're doing?

[00:21:44] Brittanie: I have a startup, so Ecosphere Organics, where we convert food waste into raw materials to support downstream industries. And so for me it's just mainly since we're at the early stage, just getting the name out there instead of getting people to understand that in order for us to actually have an impact at scale, that there needs to be sustainable solutions in the early supply chain of these products.

What's the website for Ecosphere Organics?

Oh, it's ecosphereorganics.com. But also my portfolio website is just Brittaniedabney.com.

[00:22:21] Dominique: Thank you so much for chatting today, Brittanie.

[00:22:23] Brittanie: Oh, thanks for having me. 

[00:22:24] Adam: As always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We are here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:22:36] Dominique: You can find our episodes@thegreenchampions.com. If you wanna stay in the loop, give us a review and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. If you have questions about climate change or sustainability, you can reach us on our website, thegreenchampions.com. Our music is by the Zane Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions.

We'll dig into our sustainability success story in our next episode. 

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