Dominique: ​[00:00:00] Hello, welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, our sustainability expert.

Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, our social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and did something about it.

Adam: Green Champions is a platform to share sustainability success stories, and plant new ideas.

Dominique: This is our mini series in Val Bruna, Italy, highlighting an event called NanoValbruna.

Adam: NanoValbruna is an international forum that brings scientists, entrepreneurs, professors, professionals, journalists, science communicators, and especially young people, to the heart of the Julian Alps, to talk about innovation, environment, and regeneration. Dominique had the chance to attend NanoValbruna and capture the stories of their accomplishments, and so as you're listening, I'm also [00:01:00] here equally excited to hear this episode.

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Dominique: Today I am joined by Annamaria Tartaglia. She is so many things. She's a CEO of TheBrandSitter which is a bespoke factory dedicated to the strategic development of high-end brands and international markets. And beyond fashion, she's the founder of Angels4Women, which is the first group of female business angels that's created to support and develop female startups. Annamaria approaches sustainability as an investor, fashion industry leader, and an advocate for women's rights as well as an advocate for gender equality. So I'm so glad Annamaria is joining me for this chat.

Thank you, Anna.

Annamaria: Happy to see you. Happy to be here with you.

Dominique: Thank you for chatting with me. My first question for you is, what's your connection to NanoValbruna?   

Annamaria: My connection started two years ago, last year, into the reality when one of the creator of this concept, Annalisa, called me through another founder of this project, and they asked me to [00:02:00] join NanoValbruna for the focus on different topics. One was on the point of view of the investment in female startups, but also for explaining my connection and my evolution from being a manager to an angel investor and then an angel investor, specialized or more focused on sustainability, sustainable investment, impact investment, and how all these activities can be presented together to the young generation for convincing them to be in the future entrepreneurs, female entrepreneurs investing in sustainability, but also investing in the creation of new companies.

A Lifelong Commitment to Sustainability in Fashion

Dominique: Why do you care about sustainability?

Annamaria: The reality is, probably I was committed with sustainability from the beginning of my life. We were educated to be sustainable. I remember that my grandmother continued to say that every time that you do something, you have to take care about [00:03:00] the environment, about people. So means that when you are cooking food, you have to think that has not to be wasted in any way, when you are wearing something that could be a pair of pants or a skirt or the others, this has to be for long time. And when we say long time means that my grandmother or my mother or my generation was used to repair, recycle the end of life, for example, of a product for this t-shirt. If I am not using this for wearing, I can use this for cleaning, for example.

This was for my generation, I remember because we had some cousins or big families. Any kind of clothes, for example, was for my cousins as was younger than me. In my mind, sustainability means that when you have something, I'm not telling that it's forever, but it's for a long, long time. And if it is not in the original approach that you're using for, you can transform [00:04:00] it in another way.

Dominique: You were raised so early to see the value in all these things. Where was home for you? Where'd you grow up?

Annamaria: The reality is this, looking on the evolution of the young generation and the world, I am quite convinced that people are not so well educated to this because it's very simple.

You have everything, you ask to my mom, "Please buy this absolutely brand new" or you are in a community or group of people, when you look at the other and say, "Okay, if I have not the same T-shirt or if I have not a new pair of shoes every three months probably what they think about me, they consider me not as part of this community, I cannot be integrated or I risk to be discriminated." In this way are the same parents that for avoiding these kind of problems to the young generation say, "Okay, whatever you want, you can have." 

I think that in a certain way, this is the real problem because when you can have everything, when you can have a lot of everything, you are not able to evaluate the real [00:05:00] value of what you have in terms of how much money you have to invest because it's someone giving you the money and you don't know the value of this money. Or for example, that there is no sense in having 40, 50 T-shirt in your closet all the same. What is a sense of this?

Dominique: And there's so much identity and value for us as people attached to the way we dress.

Annamaria: Yes, absolutely because what I say is when we buy something is something that is representing us. And when you buy, I think that is a political act when you buy that can define yourself. What I usually suggest to people when they buy is, please check the labels. Check where the product are made in. Try to understand the materials that were used, the fabrics that were used for producing this kind of product. And also ask to yourself, "Do I really need?" because as one of my favorite designers used to say that was Vivienne Westwood, she was one of the first one telling, buy less, buy [00:06:00] better. So I am not telling to people not to buy, but when you buy, you have to be conscious that investing much more money from the beginning in something that is higher in terms of quality, something that you can repair, something that you can use for long time is better than investing one third, one or less money for something that in one month you can't u se.

Dominique: Yeah. And when you talk to people about being a mindful, active shopper and when they're aware, okay, it matters what I buy and how I buy. And the label is helpful. 

Making Informed Purchasing Decisions

Dominique: Can you explain to listeners how to evaluate the label? I know you mentioned in a panel a couple days ago about looking at the price of a garment. Can you explain some of the things that you know from your fashion wisdom for us to learn? 

Annamaria: Absolutely. The idea is in many cases when I try to convince people that it's better to invest much more money in something that is based on quality, they say to me, "Okay, but it's too expensive." It's too expensive. I have not so much money for buying some branded clothes or clothes from the major or most famous company." And what I say to them is, it's not a question of brand, but it's a question of tracking step by step how these product are produced. Because you have many, many reports that are telling to you if these companies are able to respect workers where [00:07:00] these companies produced their product. 

At the end of the day, clearly, if you produce in countries like I dunno, only for giving you an example, Bangladesh or Cambodia or Vietnam, clearly you don't pay people or you pay people very less. Okay? At the end, the final cost of one of the t-shirt produced by I don't want to say the name of the fast fashion brands, but the reality is the example could be some of the fast fashion brands. For sure, the end of cycle of production is more or less than I can tell you half Euro. In dollars is less than 80 cents. Okay? 

When you have to pay your logistic cost, your distribution cost, or when you can add some of the other costs for US company, considering how many millions of pieces you are producing and how many million of pieces you are selling means that for every single piece, the real cost is no more than between two and three euros. This is the reality. [00:08:00] When you pay this product 10 euros, because the minimum price is 10 euros, means that the markup of the company is very consistent. And they are gaining money on something that is not creating value for anyone. It's only a profit for the company itself, this is the reality. With no impact, for example, on the local community because they don't give back to the community, anything. This is one example. 

On the other side, you have big brands in which they have their production that is fully and totally vertical integrated. So it means that they can control their supplier and they can decide to invest step by step on the production and on the other key point of their value chain. And for doing this, for sure, they have to invest much more money because controlling all your value chain from the beginning till the end means that you are investing money for controlling all the process. 

But what I'm telling you is that even if at the end of the day this t-shirt, cotton or any other materials will cost to the company 15 Euro. This is the cost. 15.20 Euro. They will sell this to you 200 Euro. What is the big [00:09:00] difference? Even if the markup it's always the same? The difference is that they are able to protect every single step of production, they are paying the right salary to people. They're giving back to the community some part of this investment. And even when they decide to implement their production, what they do is to invest in this local supplier for giving back to them part of their profit for creating the right environment when people can not survive because it's not correct to say survive, but they can live in a good way. 

And in this way you are paying also for giving back to the community. Because if I invest in this, as like many luxury brands are doing, is because I want to create, I want to have my production site in specific region of Italy, or specific region of France, I have identified the characteristics of this territory. So it means that in this way it's true that you are paying more for a product. But you know that the quality that they can transfer to you is not only related to the product itself, but it's also related to the implementation of the quality of life, of workers, of environment that they can give back to their community.

Dominique: Which goes right back to your point about the way we purchase garments is a vote, because you are not only purchasing a quality garment by paying a bit more. But you're investing in the community and all these pieces of the puzzle that are there regardless. It's just that if you're paying less, they're getting shortchanged.

Annamaria: The idea [00:10:00] is not to pay less. The idea is to have an idea and being able to have information on the different companies to have your own point of view and to be conscious on what you are doing. Because at the end, what I can say is if you want to buy fast fashion, I cannot say to you, no, you can't. Okay? It's your own choice. Probably in some point of your life you will be forced to buy fast fashion because you do not have so much money. But what I am telling you is please limit what you are buying because in the next phase of your life, probably you can capitalize in a different way. 

Or you can decide if you're educated, that you can avoid to buy 10, 15, 20 pieces every month, but you can decide that every three month, for example, you will buy only one piece or two pieces that will be enough for you and for representing you and what you are. Because at the end of the day, we don't do parties every night. Okay. Also, we have to consider that nowadays part of our work life, it is from home. We had the opportunity to spend much more time balancing our day between working from home, being in the office, mixing different kind of needs, not like as in the past. And then what I say is, don't forget that in many cases we have some different business model that we can apply to our life.

If it is addressed that I will wear once, why do I have to buy? I can rent it. Or as in the past, I cannot imagine that you do not have friends, and you can share with your friends [00:11:00] between pairs and between people that you meet every day, some dresses or some shoes or some bags. Why don't do this? It's quite simple. If you ask someone, everyone has in the wardrobe something that say, "Okay, I don't like to wear this. I can share with you," Give me this, I give you." So it is like the swap that we did in the past. Why not? It's quite normal.

Dominique: Yeah. And then it builds community and other positive things as a result. 

Annamaria: I remember when we were young, but now again, we organize party with all the friends of mine sharing all dresses and say, "Okay, I don't like this," "But I like it. Can I pick up this?" "Yes, you can." And we can exchange and we can move to another level.

Dominique: Yeah, my friends, whenever they do their closet cleaning, they bring a bag of clothes over to other friends and they let 'em go through it first.

Annamaria: Yes, but absolutely. Or you can organize this small market at home, sharing with your friends. And so you can gain money if you want to gain money, or you can share, or you [00:12:00] can exchange. You need to be only creative, but you can do whatever you want. So at the end, something that for the others is not interesting, could be interesting for you. And then in a couple of years you can use this as a present or a gift to someone else, why not? Or could be a vintage piece that could be in the wardrobe or in the closet of someone else. So it means that if we train ourself to imagine our approach to dresses and to clothes in this way, probably we can solve a lot of problems. But for doing this means that we need kind of product that are inside a huge level of quality because if not, they will not survive.

Dominique: You spoke a lot about this idea of being aware. I think part of this is awareness of how you're purchasing. 

Annamaria's Journey in Fashion

Dominique: How did you become so knowledgeable in the fashion space?

Annamaria: Probably I was lucky, I think to be lucky because I am Italian, as you can imagine.

Dominique: You're already lucky just for being Italian.

Annamaria: We're Italian. We are lucky because you know that the [00:13:00] fashion, part of fashion is from Italy. And we were aware from the beginning about the brands, about the way in which they produced, we were curious. I remember when I was very, very young during the eighties was the beginning of the growth of the Italian fashion system. Probably we were crazy about brands, but for example, if I compare the quality of some brands, of some pieces of these brands that I bought during the eighties, their quality was exceptional. Really exceptional and have some pieces coming from the eighties, some that now you can consider as vintage, that are really incredible in terms of quality. Why? Because the idea was we have to create pieces or clothes that will be in the wardrobe of our consumers, of our client for a long time. 

We do not have this idea of buying, buying, buying, buying, buying [00:14:00] every day. Why? Because we did a lot of sacrifice for buying this product. I remember we saved money every month for buying at the end of the year one unique piece or something special that will be with us for long, long time. Then I started to work for fashion companies and was quite normal for me to be trained by the people in the part of production or purchase on the other say, look, this is a leather of good quality. This is a medium quality leather. This is something that we prefer not to use. The same for wool, for cotton, for the other. So touch it. Try to understand. 

We did, for example, I remember working in the company's test that we define as crash test or torture test, you know? If you wash your T-shirt 20 times, if after 20 washing, they continue to maintain this good quality. So it means that is a sort of training that you have to do on yourself. Or if you don't do, or if you have no information, you have to ask to the others. Or when you buy, for example, nowadays you have to shop assistant that can give you [00:15:00] information. Is the reason why I know that I could seem to be old style, I don't buy fashion online. Sorry. 

Dominique: Never? 

Annamaria: Never. Nothing. No shoes, no bags, nothing. I prefer to enter in a store, to touch the materials, try to understand the quality, looking at the labels, asking information to the store assistant, having my own idea, trying the product, and then, and only after this, I decide to buy. The question for me is not trying to save money using all the website for comparing a price. 

No, it is not this because at the end is even if I am saving 20 Euros, okay, or 10 Euros, no more than this, they have to deliver this to me at home. Where is the place where they're stocking this material? What kind of transportation they're using? [00:16:00] In which way is organized the lost miles? At the end means that for saving 10 euro, at the end, I am putting other, how can I say environmental and problematic approach?

Dominique: You're broadening the carbon footprint of your purchase. 

Annamaria: Yeah, the carbon footprint. And also, yeah, I don't want to be focused on some of the major companies or marketplace, but you know, and what kind of situation are their workers? I don't want to be, I can't say close to this kind of discrimination. No, I don't want this. 

I enter in a store. I'm paying 10 euros more. Okay. But also I'm saving time and money because into the reality, for identifying marketplace that are able to offer me 10 euros in time to discount. I have to use a laptop or a smartphone. And this is, again, I am generating a negative impact in terms of carbon footprint and so and [00:17:00] so, and so, and so. I have a consumption of energy and the other. Why do I have to do this? Okay, if my main goal is to save money, probably I can wait sales, why not? 

Dominique: I think this priority order you have of what you're willing to do to let your environmental footprint not be so high, I think is really important. 

Annamaria: People are quite surprised when I say I never buy online. They say, "Why?" 

Dominique: You're the fashion queen. 

Annamaria: Yeah. But it's not only question of fashion queen when they say, for example, okay, we can say, "Have you never bought on Amazon?" I say, "Never." "Why? You can save a lot of money. You can have Prime and this and this and this and this." And at the end my question is for saving money and for having this kind of saving money, did you ask to yourself in which way they are managing their logistic platform and the situation of their workers? Why, for giving to you the opportunity to have one product at home in one hour?

Dominique: What made you so exposed? I think you have a [00:18:00] unique awareness. Like if you're saying people tell you, "What are you doing?" You know, "Why don't you see the convenience?" But you have a very unique awareness and prioritization of the people on the other end of this supply chain. Has the fashion industry made you aware of that? How is Annamaria so aware?

Annamaria: Probably because I have seen the real condition of people that work in fashion. So I know exactly what means to manage a logistic platform to manage a supply. Probably 'cause I have seen in many cases when you decide to do and to produce in offshore places, and what means this in terms of impact on children, women, and the others. And I think that there is no sense in doing this. No. It is not correct. And probably what I can say to you is at the beginning of the idea of the fashion system, this kind of ways were limited.

Why? Because you have smaller production for small numbers [00:19:00] of people. As soon as everyone in all the world started to desire or to dream about fashion. As soon as you add the addition of the young generation, the Chinese one, the new emerging countries where you have people that cannot spend so much money, but they desire to buy or they dream to buy something about fashion. Their concept of fashion was just a little bit changed. So for the quality is not important, the price, it's fundamental how you can have a product that are copy and paste of the original one. People don't care about buying fake product or dupe. It's horrible.

Dominique: Yeah, there's a whole word for it.

Annamaria: No, but it's, you have people working for this and on the other side, you have not the quality warranty for this, so you cannot check whether is inside this kind of product that in many cases are out of any kind of control and new risk for your health. So you have to imagine all these things.

I can say that it's very difficult try to explain this to teenager or young generation. But the idea is asking everyone to stop for one second. And what I usually say is, please open your closet and check how many things you have and how many of these things you wear. Because half of the things that we have, the clothes or the shoes or the bags we do not use.

Dominique: If not more.

Annamaria: No. And the question is why? Why are you buying? Why are you accumulating year by year, season by season or day by day? These kind of things. You don't need to be compulsive in your purchase. Why? What kind of problems you have to solve [00:20:00] buying so much?

Dominique: I think it's so interesting how your perspective on this comes through as someone who is so knowledgeable in the fashion space and you also play the role of an investor and I think you exist in a community that would be easy to play into all the beautiful things fashion begs of you to do, which is buy the nice, fancy, shiny thing.

Changing the Fashion Mindset From Fast Fashion to Long-Term Value

Dominique: How do you think we can change that if fashion right now is going the direction of online and fast and we wanna have the thing that matches the person next to us so we fit in and we look like we're in style. How do you advise someone to think about...

Annamaria: That is not really true that people want to buy online because I think that after COVID where the majority of people were forced to buy online. Again, but during Covid, we didn't need to buy clothes. Why? For 

Dominique: We weren't going anywhere.

Annamaria: This was crazy. But what we have seen is the fact that after Covid, for example, people decided to go back to buy in the store. [00:21:00] And the idea is that you can entertain young generation with the online, with the digital. But in reality, young generation want to be entertained by human and humanity. So it means that at the end is you find a balance between this, you can find a way to convince people to buy in a conscious and sustainable way. For the future is clear that the main goal of every company is growth, to have much more profit, clearly, because in this way your shareholders or your investors or the owners will be much more happy for sure, but I don't think that the growth of fashion generally could continue in this way. 

Because we have countries where the level of consciousness, it's very high. And also for the new countries, the new emerging consumers entering into the market. At the beginning, it is like to be totally drunk when you buy something, okay, you are happy. Yeah. But after couple of years, or less than a couple of years, immediately you understand that you don't need this.

So means that the cycle of fashion is or continue to launch new product, new collaboration, new, new, new, new something that is every day in front of people consider as hype. But you cannot sustain this kind of risk. It's impossible. And also you can see that brands that only six months ago were considered top of mind and top of desire of young consumers or consumers. Now, they're going down. This is the classical and typical way of fashion. You cannot survive forever.

Dominique: What's the biggest success you've seen in the fashion space when it comes to sustainability? What's something you've witnessed that you think is biggest success so far?

Annamaria: Usually it is not fashion, but it's luxury. And is one of the examples that I want to share with people because it's quite unusual. It's a brand where people are not usually considered sustainable, but it is and it's Hermès. Hermès, I think is the best example of a brand that was created to be forever. Absolutely and totally timeless. Growing in an organic way and investing in the territory and in community, expanding their presence. And then even if very few people know [00:22:00] this, they were one of the first one investing in sustainability, starting from the idea that because they had a lot of waste on their product, leather, silk, and the others, they decided to reuse this kind of product for creating a new line, new kind of lines, new kind of product mixing the waste. And it's funny because say " was really necessary to do this?" Yes, it was. Because if you consider how much money they invested in some kind of leather or in producing silk, or say, "okay, why do we have to eliminate this or not to reuse this? "

And starting from this example, many other luxury brands or many other groups decided to do this. For example, Valentino, they launched a platform with a player for resale their fabrics [00:23:00] that were not used or were the waste of their collection. The same did the LVMH group. Many of the big companies decided to create their sustainable program because at the end you have so many ways and if you do not start doing this, it's quite impossible because you can try to decide how many pieces you want to produce, but could happen that at the end of season or the weather, for many reasons, you have a lot of stock or you have to do of this stock. You have to resale it, you have to organize special sales, you have to identify new system of distribution. Or could be you have to work with these startups for giving to them or for having a partnership with them in order to create the opportunity for this waste or overstock to be reused in another way for creating new fabrics. So means that actually we have to imagine the [00:24:00] system as a unique ecosystem.

And if you imagine, not in terms of sustainability, but in terms of circularity. The whole system for sure working a lot 'cause we have to work a lot. In the next years we will reach a new level of awareness on this. 

Dominique: That's very exciting. 

Regeneration in the Fashion Industry

Dominique: And this year of NanoValbruna is focusing on regeneration. And I wanted to bring us back to our very first topic around the community side of a textile. You know, there's the waste-side, which is, you know, that's one component of the sustainability story, and we've been talking a lot on the podcast capturing of this week that sustainability is step one, and then regeneration as it sits above that. With this idea of creating a real positive good, would you say regeneration in the fashion space begins and ends with community, or how would you describe the difference there between regeneration and sustainable fashion?

Annamaria: Okay. Actually everyone [00:25:00] is speaking about sustainability. Everything is sustainable. It is green, it's sustainable, it's green, it's sustainable. But in the majority of the case means that what you're able to do is to reduce your carbon footprint.

But it's the starting point. We have also to remember that every time that we discuss about sustainability, one of the part of the sustainability, it's related to the human rights, it's related to the condition of workers. It's related to the inclusivity. So means that we have different steps. And what we have seen is that nowadays many companies, big or small one, are starting to work on what we define not financial reports. So it means that for presenting there are a commitment with the ESG, CSR and so and so, and so. 

This is only the beginning. Imagine a system that will be really regenerative. One, means that everyone, in terms of company and [00:26:00] consumers, because it's something that we can do together, is how we can create product that from the beginning could be recycled, reused resell, repair, means that you have to train your designer in terms of what eco-design means. You have to support them in identify who are the supplier that can give to them the fabrics, or the raw material that is sustainable. Then you have to be compliant in your production step by step means that you have to rethink your supply chain platform, your distribution model. 

And also is when you enter in a store, being circular or sustainable means that, for example your furniture has to be produced by recycled material. Your lights, everything that you can see in your store has to be aligned [00:27:00] with this. For example, you can use piece of furniture that you have used during your fashion show. You can move from the fashion show to your store. You can imagine how long will be this process as where I say is, this is only the beginning.

And it's not a question of having international legislation that will force the company to do something that will solve the problem. This is only the starting point. But for be able to view the result we need on my personal point of view, no more than 20 years for having all this circular system working.

On my personal point of view is now is 2024. I am thinking that we will start to be ready 10 years and for applying everything is 20 years. So means that could be 2045, more or less. 

Dominique: I would bet on your expectations. 

Annamaria: And this is, believe me, a positive projection considering that all around the world everyone will adopt this system because if not, we have never, never forget that we have east, west, small countries regulation that are different and kind of consumers that are entering in this market that are at different stage of awareness.

Dominique: And fashion among other industries, but fashion in particular touches the whole world, [00:28:00] even just for one brand, which is

Annamaria: Yeah. Which is everyone is crazy about fashion.

Dominique: Yeah.

Annamaria: Everyone. 

Investing in Sustainable Impact: Empowering Female Founders

Dominique: Yeah, it's very interesting and I can listen to your wisdom forever, but I'm gonna ask you one more question and I wanna just briefly give you a chance to share about the investor side ' cause I think that as a female founder, I think it's incredible how much you are passionate about female founders and just investing. And I see that as a big way of how you, you know, you talk about voting when we buy something, but you're creating such impact with the way that you invest.

Can you just share your perspective on investing and how you think about that as your impact?

Annamaria: What I think is that when I started to invest was, more than 10 years ago, no one was considering the impact is a world that was totally unknown. And when we try to suggest to invest in some kind of business that were slow in their growth some investors say, "Are you crazy? We want to have exit in five years." Okay. I say, okay, probably could that be five years, in three [00:29:00] years? Okay. Probably we need longer time for this investment. It's the reason why the kind of investment that we as women, or particularly as women are doing our kind of investment that can have an impact on different segment of society. Could be in fashion, could be on health, could be technology, could be in space.

Try to find female founders, but also embracing kind of project that probably we don't know if in three years, five years will give us an exit. But for sure will give us the opportunity to grow with the project itself and to support the future not only of these founders, but part of our society or giving a positive message to the society.

So is what we are trying to do is not only a question of how much money I can gain from my investment, but is in which way my investment will support founders, will support the creation of a company and how this company will have a positive impact itself on the community and the creation of new value for the community and for the other people.

Dominique: That's amazing. I love the way that you think about the long term. I think you have a very broad view. 

Annamaria: If you don't imagine the long term, it's, I give money, I want your money back, my money back in two years, three years. Okay. But if you want to do this, you can decide any kind of speculative investment and you do this.

Dominique: I think that's my biggest takeaway from a lot of really brilliant things that you've shared. But you look at a piece of clothing and you think about all the pieces of the puzzle that got it there and where it will go later. And I think that you talk a lot about just this longer term view. So even if it's your money [00:30:00] now going into one business, you're building the, the blocks of something bigger. 

Annamaria: Yeah. The idea is you cannot receive your money back in one year. Okay? It's an investment. If you don't want to do this kind of investment, okay, you have better alternative. We know that it's a risk investment because we know that many project will fail or our money will serve, for example, to our founders to rethink their business, to reimagine their business model.

Not every time when we invest from the beginning till the end is the same business model could change, okay? Because it's changing the society, is changing the world is okay. We have to review and we have to be open. It's a challenge, okay? It could be positive or negative at the end of the days. Okay.

There are some years in which I'm very, very happy. Say, okay, great. This year I had one exit. One of my company has been listed, and some years I'm gonna say, "Okay, I had five write off." Great. Okay. No money. We have to restart from zero. Yeah. Okay. It's life.

Dominique: And I like the balance you have with the urgency of the climate crisis. You have these easy things we can start doing about. Being mindful of buying, but also like long-term investment and being realistic about.. 

Annamaria: Long term. Long term.

Dominique: This is gonna be a journey if you're gonna change a big system, there's an element of practicality and patience to moving that.

Annamaria: Yeah. But what I think is that if you want to change a big system, you have to be patient. You need time because you have so many stakeholders that you have to convince and you have to work hard with. And this is a question of money, money, money, money. Every time that you ask to someone to change something or a piece, you have to imagine how much money they have to invest, how long will be, what will be the impact. It's quite impossible to say that we will be sustainable in five years. No, the reality is no. We are trying to do, but we will not be.

Dominique: And a lot of big changes we've seen haven't happened in five years.

Annamaria: Yeah, no, it, it's impossible. It's impossible because we are starting now, or even if we started in some segment also with the legislation. But you need time. But it's like for the cars, you cannot say people that you have to buy electric car if they do not have money for buying this. Okay? They do not have money. It's clearly that I need a car and I need to, to, to drive for reaching my, my workplace, but I have not money for buying an electric car.

Okay. The alternative, what is, is to implement infrastructure to give people the opportunity to use other alternative way to, in this way you can solve part of problem, but you ask them to invest money for buying something and they have no money for doing this. No. Yeah. The answer is no, I can't. This is reality. So we have to be also really conscious about what is happening in the world.

Dominique: If listeners wanna learn more about you or learn more from you, I mentioned TheBrandSitter, and I also mentioned Angels For Women. 

Annamaria: Yes. 

Dominique: How can listeners learn more about these organizations? Do you have socials or websites?

Annamaria: Yes, we have our website. We have our social media or if someone would like to get in touch directly with me, I am present on LinkedIn and you can ask the connection. I will say yes and we can continue our conversation.

Dominique: What are the websites and social handles? 

Annamaria: The website for TheBrandSitter is thebrandsitter.com. Just for women is justforwomen.com so we are very, very simple, very, very basic. If you digit this both on Instagram, LinkedIn, you can find us. The majority of our social presentation are on LinkedIn and Instagram. On our website, you can find everything. You have the email for getting in touch with us, or if not, as I say to you on LinkedIn, that is my profile and you can get in touch with me directly.

Dominique: Perfect. Thank you so much for chatting with me. 

Annamaria: Thank you for your time.

Dominique: For all the listeners, Annamaria, this was just a scratch to the surface of the amazing things we could have talked about. But thank you so much for doing this. 

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Dominique: Adam, what'd you think of Anna Maria's episode?

Adam: I really loved how she focused on reducing consumption by focusing on quality. And, you [00:31:00] were mentioning a little bit about how she has such a fantastic wardrobe that she brings in that she personally wears, but a lot of that is a wardrobe that she's had for a long time and she's just creating new things out of that.

Dominique: Yeah, I think it was really awesome to hear about sustainability in fashion from somebody that is very close to high fashion and definitely is a big part of the fashion industry, especially in Italy, which Milan is like a fashion, big fashion city. So being able to hear her perspective on sustainability and the lack of compromise between fashion and sustainable consumption or sustainable textiles. I think that was really refreshing. I appreciated how much she focused on what we can do and where to look as opposed to all the problems in the industry.

Adam: Yeah. And also highlighting some of the good examples of high-end retailers that are really taking this into account and what they're actually doing.

Listeners may not know this I've worked in the retail industry for a long time, and I've looked at the numbers of consumption that people do to sell stuff and get through their stores and how that's [00:32:00] changed and how much of a mindset that is. And just you need to sell more stuff in order to increase your bottom line. So if there's a, a better way that we can tackle that by having more expensive goods that last a lot longer, then there's a way for us to make an impact there.

Dominique: Yeah. And I think what's cool also, I remember mentioning on Lisa's episode, Lisa Goldsand with Circular thrift, is the idea that some brands have also made profit centers from taking back clothing they've previously sold that have been worn and repairing and reselling them or just reselling them. But you can trust that it's coming from the same seller. So like the level of quality is the same, even if it has been, pre-warn. But there's so many creative ways to I think look at over consumption and find new solutions.

And it's a big, big problem. It's one of the biggest sources of material waste of any industry. And it's exciting to hear people talk about different ways to look at it.

Adam: Also good for us to take into account in our own wardrobes of like, "Hey, how can we extend the life of the stuff [00:33:00] that we have" so things aren't just landing in a landfill.

Dominique: I think fashion is one creative space that has a lot of sustainability potential. And our next episode we'll dive into a design perspective on sustainability.

Adam: I can't wait to hear about Lorenzo. As always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We are here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

Dominique: You can find our episodes and reach us at thegreenchampions.com.

If you wanna stay in the loop, give us a review and follow us on your favorite podcast platform. Our music is by Zane Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We'll be digging into another sustainability success story in the next episode. 

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